Jayfromcleveland ( I can’t do “links” yet- tips please!) wrote this:
“I've always said the
I think he’s spot on.
His comments reminded me of a letter I read recently in a
newspaper complaining of a visit to a "quality" restaurant being
ruined by the proximity of a group of "chavs" with their crass
manners and their designer bling. It seems to me the lower orders are charming
so long as they are acting like peasants and enjoying peasant pursuits. Once
they get money in their purse and start acting "above" themselves they
are mocked and ridiculed.
I detect a similar attitude towards
No country is above
reproach, and as the major world super power (for now)
For my part, I'd rather have a gum chewing Yank bestriding the world with his Stetson and his spurs, like a Cowboy Colossus, than a turbanned mullah who'll have me in my own ready-to-wear tent quicker than you can say "dhimmi".
I think Jays right, the “American century” is over. I think its’ passing is a matter for regret. I think its time we remembered the manners we’re so fond of and said “Thank you”.
Comments
May. 5, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by jayfromcleveland
Hi Clare, to add a link to a post, go to the address bar in your internet browser, left click the URL you want, then right click and select "copy." Then in your HSB entry, highlight the text you wish to link, click the little "globe with a chain" icon (WWW link -- get it?) and paste in the URL. Try it!
I can appreciate the sour grapes that Europeans feel toward the USA or any empire. It's the same feeling the Irish had against the English, or the Gauls had against Caesar, ranging from resentment to outright hatred. There's gotta be even more resentment toward the USA. Compared to 1000 years European tribes cutting each other to bits over patches of land, the American innovation to the old, old imperial theme was to conquer economically and technologically rather than militarily. Why rob someone by pointing a sword or gun at them when you can offer them fast food, entertainment and gizmos and they fork over the cash willingly? I'm sure many Europeans of the last century have wondered, "gee, why didn't we think of that?"
May. 5, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by OreoSouza
Good post. So true it's sad.
May. 5, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by Buckeyeblog
Thank you for the thank you!
Blessings from Ohio-USA, Kim Wolf<>,
May. 5, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by ihopeyoudance
What I have to say here I want you to interpret as a friendly conversation... that doesn't always come through when you're writing... know that I'm stating my opinion here while respecting yours. So, ahem...
I"m really enjoying your posts so I hate disagreeing... but I must. To quote loosely from Mark Twain "The tales of America's demise are greatly exaggerated". And Jay... what are YOU thinking? Again... what I've read of your posts makes me generally like you so I really hate to disagree, but... "America reduced to farmers and tinkerers?" Sure, America has alot of problems... many things that happen here are not right... but America is STILL an idea that is so powerful that people all over the world fight... give up everything... to make their way here, or to emulate what we have here on their own soil. Whatever criticisms might be made about America by us or by others observing us... and they're probably mostly true... it's still an idea that is to be respected and fought for... and I would not bet the farm on us becoming a nation of "farmers and tinkerers" anytime soon.
Ruth
May. 5, 2006 - Our friendly discussion...
Posted by ihopeyoudance
Hi... I wanted to reconfirm that while I was having a different opinion on the topic under discussion... from reading your blog I think you sound like a delightful, funny, highly intelligent, deep thinking person... one that I would be proud to call friend. So, I don't want to have hurt your feelings with my differing opinion... the difference is about the ideas and thoughts, not a disapproval of you (or Jay... although my difference of opinion is mostly with Jay, I'm sure he's a great fella too.)
Ruth
May. 5, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by jayfromcleveland
Well Ruth, if you happen to surf through here again, let me just tell you that I'm not overly concerned whether or not anyone agrees with my opinions, friendly conversationalists or otherwise. I do however believe that America was greatest when we WERE still a nation of farmers and tinkerers -- such as George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison and the Wright Brothers to name a few. And we should be only so fortunate if the LORD will permit us to return to such a place. I would hope you would not disdain such an estate.
However, I can't imagine what there is about the current generation of Americans that either makes us worthy of such an heritage, or capable of continuing and extending the same. Surely the current crop of white-boy-rapper skateboard dudes don't inspire confidence. I could go on about why we are no good as "the world's policeman" and why our culture was better before we became Europe's imperial heir. But unlike 100 years ago, we consume much but produce little, and have become fat, decadent and stupid as a people, as mighty Rome had done in its own time.
Mind you, I believe that Christian homeschoolers are the single best hope for America's future. But as I blogged recently, China is expected to economically surpass the USA in 2045, when our little homeschool babies are in the thick of adult life. Are there enough of us now to turn the tide so quickly? The Chinese and Indians are currently working as hard as our grandparents did to build something of their nations, and our generation only knows how to have fun. So perhaps it's someone else's turn to waltz across the imperial stage? It's the cycle of history, God help us all.
May. 6, 2006 - Reply to Jay...
Posted by ihopeyoudance
Hi Jay… well first of all, I didn’t “happen” to surf by Clare’s blog… I came intentionally because I think she’s one of the most talented, thought provoking and interesting writers I’ve come across in a long time. If she ever wrote a book, I’d buy it because it would be sure to be a delight.
Secondly… are you a christian? I haven’t read your blog enough to know. If you are a christian then you are under the same Law of Love that I am under as a christian and you really SHOULD be concerned about whether or not a sister in the Lord is disagreeing with you “in Love” or not… and you also should be careful to let the Law of Love guide you in your interactions with a sister in the Lord such as myself because, well, Daddy’s watching! (If you’re not a christian ignore the above since you are under no such constraints.) Since I know from Clare’s blog that she’s a sister in the Lord I wanted to make sure she knew that though I was disagreeing it was with the heart of one who recognizes and desires to follow the Law of Love as commanded by Jesus and treat her and you with love and respect even while disagreeing.
And next… your recent reply of: “I do however believe that America was greatest when we WERE still a nation of farmers and tinkerers -- such as George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison and the Wright Brothers to name a few. And we should be only so fortunate if the LORD will permit us to return to such a place. I would hope you would not disdain such an estate.” lands you completely on the opposite side of the fence from your original comment (the one that I took umbrage to)… the first comment was:
“I've always said the USA is the ne'er-do-well-cousin-made-good of the European family. One day we crash the family reunion with a trophy wife and a ring on every finger (so to speak) and our cultured, well-mannered European cousins have no choice but to grudgingly admit that we made out okay in spite of ourselves. But not to worry, "The American Century" is over and we are well on the way to once again becoming a nation of farmers and tinkerers (if not Al Qaida sleeper cells!!!)”
In your original comment you were NOT praising the greatness of farmers and tinkerers. You were predicting the demise of the kind of wealth and success in America that you think our European cousins begrudgingly admit to. That‘s a VERY different comment than the one you‘re trying to turn it into. I would have had no comment at all if that is what you had said. In fact, I would agree with you that America’s farmers are among our best and greatest people… the verdict is out on modern day tinkerers though… what DO they actually do…. and will they work weekends? Hehe.
As to your comments about the awfulness of the current generation of Americans I say BULL. There are MANY thousands upon thousands of wonderful, generous hearted, kind, brave Americans and they aren’t all homeschooled. Sure, the “current crop of white-boy-rapper skateboard dudes” exists but there’s hope for even them. I’m old enough to remember a little thing called the “Jesus Movement”… ever heard of it? Lots of wonderful family men and women went in one side of it with no shoes, a culture of drugs and promiscuity, etc., and came out the other side as preachers, teachers, missionaries, Godly doctors, lawyers, businessmen and women, and yes… even homeschoolers!
Clare, I’m sorry if this conversation should have taken place on Jay’s blog instead of yours. I’m still getting used to blog etiquette and when I read his comments it was on your blog so I wrote back here… but forgive me if I should have gone to his blog to reply.
Ruth
May. 6, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by jayfromcleveland
Yes Clare, I'm also sorry to have gotten into this on your blog. Ruth, I'm sorry to have offended you. Guess you and I have some basic differences of opinion.
May. 6, 2006 - No Problem Jay...
Posted by ihopeyoudance
No problem Jay... I'm sure that there are oodles of things we are in agreement about. I'll still look forward to enjoying your future posts!
Ruth
May. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by BattlementsofRubies
Hi Ruth, sorry for being late to respond to this one, I've been a little busy. Thank you for your perfectly gracious disagreement. I'm not at all offended. My understanding of Jays point is, however, quite different from yours. I'm really glad you asked for clarification, and hope you would continue to do so.
Jay, thank you for clarifying, and more even more especially, thank you for the info on links. I'm looking forward to playing with this new trick : )
Since its my blog I'll be bold enough to take the last word and clarify the nub of my own thoughts. Whatever the future holds, economically and otherwise, for the USA ,I hope the world will be humble and gracious enough to acknowledge its debt. Whatever the ills of Hollywood, Big Macs and Rap, America has demonstrated that man is actually capable of governing himself. It brought liberty to the neglected and despised masses of common laboring people. It offered a stunning re evaluation of the view of of ordinary people hitherto regarded as base, if not actually vile, ignorant and probably stupid, a view which had provided the glue for upper class solidarity for centuries. It was birthed a Christian nation and espoused the view that all men are created equal. It provided a refuge and an opportunity to the flotsam and jetsam of the world. It powerfully challenged despotism at a time when the world badly needed it. From where I'm sitting, in Europe, this seems to have been largely forgotten.
May. 7, 2006 - You are Spot On!!!
Posted by ihopeyoudance
Excellent Clare! Consider yourself "High Fived"!
Ruth:)
May. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment
Posted by jayfromcleveland
Well put, and your observations are especially appreciated as an objective party. But in addition to America being an ideal and a haven, no one in the world can flip on a light or otherwise participate in the modern world without tripping over some American contribution. I guess the point I was straining at was that the USA model was never meant to be imperial (read:superpower), nor was it meant to displace the old empires, and that's why we have been especially inept as an empire. So if we fall from world prominence, that might not be such a bad thing, for the world and also our own culture.