Actually, the swimsuit question was rhetorical.

   I guessed that, after the Committed Christian Guy made several references to the effects of bare flesh on a male mind, it would mean that swimsuits, by nature, are immodest. And, I, personally, cannot understand the bare flesh leading to other thoughts to keep under subjection, because I have never really thought past the bare legs and chest associated with swimtrunks (though they leave little to wonder about!).

    I do believe that modesty is not just being concerned with what someone else thinks. I believe God built each soul with a spirit that wants to be holy and flesh that wants to be, well, hellish. So, that is our decision... holy or hellish.

   It's funny that I just saw a program about this on PBS History Detectives last night after I had posted that entry. It spoke of how these little itty, bitty eyeglasses, with pictures on them, called stanhopes, coming out of Europe in the 1800's with pictures of scantily-clad or nude women were banned in some countries.  It brought up the subject of modesty and the question of why some nude pictures were immodest - or pornographic- and some were considered art.  So, almost a century later, with the "free-to-be-me hippy era", we had to make legislation for those who couldn't discern it for themselves.

   I think when morality and what is modest and what is not was actually legislated in the '60's or 70's (which is not included in the program transcript for some reason), that was the point at which our (we, as a culture) idea of modesty changed.  Even if it had changed before, we then had someone who had defined modesty for us, so, even if we felt that something was immodest, we had a law that said otherwise.   The definition of modesty was, at that point, being legislated by men, instead of by convictions (from God or the Holy Spirit).

   That is where the modest moral Christian today loses sight of what morality is - we let someone else define what modesty is or is not - usually culture, or Hollywood or our children's friends... and we would rather go along for the ride, instead of thinking about it and seeking the Truth for ourselves (forget about taking a stand and establishing morality and holiness).

   Hence, the comments about the lack of modest clothing enforced in the commentors' churches.  Sad.

   So, by definition of modesty... in the holy sense of the word, can a swimsuit, which bares all but... can it be modest? I don't mean a comparatively modest swimsuit (one compared to the -I heard a description recently from a comic- 2 potato chips and a band-aid - swimsuits).  After all, why compare a ideal like Holy Modesty with something of such a low standard on the modesty scale?