Walking Therein

Christmas - originally celebrated by the pagans....

Christmas--something we don't observe

3:29 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by Anonymous

Hi there!
I found your blog via Jen Ig's comments page. Very well put. In fact, your words remind me of my own about 5 years ago when I learned about the pagan roots of most "christian" holidays.

Since then, our family has decided to not observe christmas or easter, and instead have embraced the Biblical Feasts outlined in the Old Testament. We do give our children gifts during Hanukkah (although this isn't Biblical, either...we just felt we had to do something to ease their pain over not "doing" christmas and "missing out" on what their peers were doing.

We "converted" to Messianic judaism during that time as well.

While it is sometimes hard not to embrace traditional holidays, keeping to our convictions is what matters most. In the end, I won't have to explain to God why my neighbor did or didn't do something...He'll ask me why I did the things I did. And while not everyone agrees (but it does seem like more 'n more people are learning about these things all the time, and coming to the same conclusions--interesting!), I have to stick with what I feel God has called us to.

Thank you for your wonderful post. May the Lord bless you with His wisdom, and guide you along the path He has chosen for you.

Take care,
Denise Opper
http://www.vivalachai.blogspot.com

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4:29 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by quietcajun

I have to say that while life is not about MY feeling BETTER.... it is reassuring that others feel the same way that I do!

See my entry today!

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5:44 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by jayfromcleveland

Hi Jacque, I understand your concerns and have shared them myself over the years. The more I read on the subject of "pagan origins," the more clear it becomes that one would need to live in a cave to be totally pure. Telling time -- counting 12 hours in a day is something that comes from evil, Baal-worshipping Babylon. Same with measuring 360 degrees in a circle. Really, all mathematics is a product of non-Christian, idol-worshipping cultures, but I never read of Christians getting up in arms about doing geometry homework (not for *those* reasons anyway!)

Also take language fer instance -- we use the word "divine" to refer to the things of God. This word comes from the Latin "divus" which is the same as "dius" or "deus," the Latin equivalent of the Greek "Zeus." All these words are cognate with "dies" and variations thereof which means "day" in many related languages including Persian and Sanskrit, which seems to connote Sun worship.

All our time measurement includes pagan references -- the names of the weekdays and the months are all pagan. Our whole culture is overflowing with "meat sacrificed to idols." Imagine how it must have been in the early church, throughout the Roman Empire. Maybe we can approach this as Paul taught in Romans. God bless, jay

I really enjoyed your entry...

6:42 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by mominpa

I too have done a bit of reading this year (the links are on my blog).

I am praying...and seeking His wisdom... we live in such a pagan world...all around.

I just enjoyed reading and knowing I'm not the only one seriously questioning 'what has always been done'.

God bless you and your family as you seek His will for your family.

WOW

7:12 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by mominpa

I just took a moment to read a few of your blog entries... I really enjoyed them....

It is nice to read entries of like minded women.

So I see on your side bar...what you are using for your children...Plants Grow Up... do you like that? And then reading... do you assign their books? So you don't really use a 'unit study' then...not a pre-planned one...right? Very interesting..

I did enjoy reading....

Hi Jay,

7:54 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by JacqueDixonSoulRestES

I did add this to my post, FYI:

**ADDED** Why don't I know what the answer is? Because I DO see Jen's point: Celebrating a time we all enjoy; getting together with family; giving gifts (Who doesn't love giving or receiving?); singing songs, etc. I do understand. It's all of this other nagging information and questions that I will have to find God through.***

Sorry for such a long reply. This is why I wasn't sure I wanted to post about it; it IS controversial. Thank God for His love, so we can all discuss this in a loving, peaceable manner. Thank you for your love and gentleness in your disagreement. Yes, I read your comment following mine on Jen's blog about the pagan origins.

This Reply is not to be disrespectful, and I hope you don't think I am making a judgment on your convictions, because I am not. I have been contemplating this aspect of christmas for several years, so this isn't just a new thought. I just actually delved into it more yesterday as I searched online. Believe me, I know we would have to live in a cave to escape the pagan origins of today's world. Matt and I have dealt with issues like Pepsi's sponsors when he worked there. Do you quit your job because they support Britney Spears, etc.? Where do we shop? Where do we buy gas? UGGGHHHH! Yes, I understand what you are saying.

The thing is that we don't celebrate or worship numbers, our language, the days of the week, the year, measurement, geometry, etc.

We do, however, celebrate holidays that have pagan origins. We do not just celebrate the Biblical account of the Birth of Christ; we add all of the fun pagan things and call it tradition. Most Christians do not just celebrate the Resurrection of Jesus. We celebrate Easter with gifts, eggs, etc. We celebrate Valentine's day, St. Patrick's day and call it fun, celebration and tradition. We celebrate St. Nick's day, just to counteract the celebration of santa claus.

I am not trying to be a killjoy, and I am not saying anyone is going to hell or making sacrifices to other gods. But, let's look at it from God's eyes, not our own. What does He say? We have to do things for His glory, not due to the culture we live in or tradition.

This is where we have confused the issue of halloween to the point that we as Christians join in because cannot discern it is unholy. We do not know (or maybe, care) that there are still pagan witches making human sacrifice and worshiping satan to celebrate the same holiday we all get together for, dressed up as Moses and fluffy bunnies to bob for apples.

Can we live in America - or anywhere, for that matter - and "Be ye separate"? I don't know!!! But, do we have to look like the world so we don't feel left out or do as the popes and bishops did when they Christianized these holidays in the first place to make all the Christians feel better about wanting to celebrate like the pagans did? The fact that we do live in an already-paganized world is why we should stay away from what we can, IMHO.

Why don't we celebrate the Jewish holidays, since those are the holidays God commanded His People to celebrate?

Saying all of this, I will also say that we can really do what we want to. The Bible says that all things are lawful, even though they may not edify! "Cor. 10:23." Does this apply to what used to be used to worship other gods? I don't know. We have to each work out our own salvation. I have been searching for the past 3 years what it is that God wants from us, His People, in order for us to be holy in our lives. This is where He has led me.

As Denise commented on my post, "In the end, I won't have to explain to God why my neighbor did or didn't do something...He'll ask me why I did the things I did. And while not everyone agrees (but it does seem like more 'n more people are learning about these things all the time, and coming to the same conclusions--interesting!), I have to stick with what I feel God has called us to."

Be Blessed!
Jacque
Mom to SuperAngel, Myrtle, Tigerlily and Young Man in Training

On a side note:
Like last night, as I was planning lessons from The Mystery of History by L. Hobar, and I got to the chapter on st. valentine and the pagan origins.... I love the book, but the author states, "As you can imagine, it was difficult for the Christians living in Rome to deal with all of the pagan festivals that surrounded them." So, what happened? The pope christianized it so it wouldn't be so 'difficult' for them.

I don't know, maybe it is supposed to be difficult. It was for Jesus.

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10:56 PM, Tuesday, December 5, 2006 .. Posted by Anonymous

really brave of you to post this. I came by way of Jen Ig's post. I am new to blogging, and I am not sure if I will even address this on my blog..seems like blogdom is very busy with christmas tours and stuff.. But, we have struggled with this too-for a few years. We stopped having a tree almost 4 years ago, and this will be our 3rd year not celebrating Christmas in our house. I would love to let go of it completley, specially after seeing alot of ugliness from extended family after figuring out what we were not doing...but we still go to visit them and exchange gifts with them. We did figure it would be hard on the kids, since they were used to the tradition, so we switched over to celebrating another year as a family on new year's day. We had already scaled them back to 3 gifts long ago...the materialism of Christmas has always bothered us. When we made the decision, I took the kids to the mall a few days before Christmas and talked to them. Looking down at the throng of people who all looked mad and hurried seemed to drive home to them why we were not going to do what the world does anymore. Sorry if this post is way too long, but I just wanted to let you know that there are others who don't like the mixture of the wordliness and paganism with what is holy. I think you are brave to write about this. Not sure yet if I will. I guess the force of reaction from family has made me shy of addressing it to anyone.
blessings,
Jenny in Ca
www.homeiswhereyoustartfrom.blogspot.com
p.s. I am pretty sure that the pilgrims didn't celebrate Christmas

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11:53 PM, Saturday, December 9, 2006 .. Posted by babymakers

I have been avoiding this subject all season. It is not an enjoyable time of year for me. I get mad because I can't find a reason to celebrate it. So, we don't do a tree. We don't decorate. We don't do any of that stuff. What to do, what to do.....I have it!!! We can just let our husbands decide and then hide behind them. LOL That is what I am going to do.

Xmas

2:15 PM, Sunday, December 17, 2006 .. Posted by Anonymous

Shalom Jacque,

I read your post at HOW message board and you are sooo right! The paganism goes so very deep. Are u ready for the rest of the RED Pill? Check out www.fossilizedcustoms.com .

May Yahshua bless you,
josette