Walking Therein

Convictions: Yours, Mine and Ours

7:35 AM, Sunday, March 9, 2008 .. Posted in Oh LORD, Help Me Live Biblically .. 9 comments .. Link

I was thinking the other night about our family and where we are at now, at this time. We have eight children. Eight children I love being home with. We drive a 15-passenger van. We have goats and chickens. We homeschool. We do not attend church at this time. We do believe the Word of God to be true. We are hoping for more children, as the Lord sees fit. The only thing I am missing right now is living by our parents and a family church. This is a radical way to live in today's Christian circles. Because of most of these things, we have been stared at, ridiculed and chastised.

Then I read what MamaArcher posted: a Disclaimer on Convictions in response to the seemingly offensiveness of large families to so many Christians today. It was confirmation of what I had just been thinking about the night before. I had gone to sleep remembering why we were "asked to step down" from positions at the church we had attended for 5 years and were very much in leadership and helping them to get ministries started, as well as having our older children involved and helping us.

There was a distinct and ridiculous question posed to me ~ among other ones, like homeschooling and breastfeeding ~by the Pastor(with whom I had worked closely when Matt was on the Board and I was a Worship Leader). It was, "So, if a man gets a vasectomy, then what do you think about that?". I was astonished. And embarrassed. What a question! Especially for a man to ask a woman about! My reply was, "I think that is none of my business!". My feelings were hurt. Like he could trap me in those convictions. I didn't even feel trapped; I felt sorry for him, a Pastor, who totally misunderstood that these were our - and my - personal convictions. It was not for us to decide who else would follow this path, and it certainly was not something he could trap me in.

Most Christians would agree on the fact that you have to accept Christ as Saviour to be saved, whether it is believed by everyone or not. That is fact, just as the Bible holds many facts. Some beliefs are not simply convictions. They are spiritual truths. Holding to those truths does not make you a judgmental person. It does not make you legalistic. Sometimes, things are just TRUTH. We don't make it up; we don't make more out of it than it is: It is just Truth. Just because someone, Christian or not, does not want to hold to that truth does not mean it is just our convictions.

Obviously, we have eight children, and it is one of the first things people notice about our family. It is a great source of opinion on people's minds. We have heard it all, believe me, from Believer and unbeliever alike. We smile and say what a blessing it is to have all of these children, and state that, no, we don't know if we are "done yet". Whenever this issue of convictions comes up among Believers, Matt and I are usually labeled legalistic. We try to follow the Word and listen to God in our hearts, so we are legalistic. Legalistic. The Pastor told Matt he was "copping-out" when he wanted him to make a decision without me that went against something we had already agreed upon as parents. A "cop-out".
Legalism: relying on one's own integrity and God's Word to stand in your convictions in the face of ridicule by fellow Believers. How's that for a definition?

It was not fun at all leaving our church. Because we were reading the Word and putting what we learned into practice, we lost a lot of friends, and it was very hurtful. We have known since all that happened six years ago that God would use our family as an example by which His Spirit will convict others in their own hearts just by us living out our faith... but, what??? are we to deny the Word or His Conviction in our own hearts to make them more comfortable??? I think not.

Why are Biblical issues so controversial between Believers?? When have they not been? Jesus was always in controversy. I believe there is controversy today because of the war between the Culture and God. Christianity is many times too seeped into the culture and its mindsets. We need to get a Biblical worldview, not a pop-culture Christian one. The question is, can we live with our convictions amongst each other? I know what I believe to be true in the Word. I have friends and family who believe differently. I can live with that. We are all at different places in our walks, and none is greater or lesser than another. I have not arrived. I have not always been where I am today. I can love them and hope they can love me.
The problem is that many times they cannot. No matter whether I keep my mouth shut and just live as we are or shout our beliefs from the rooftops, they cannot live with our convictions. We are still being legalistic, even without discussing a thing.
The enemy will steal, kill and destroy all he can... and what a better way to do that than in the name of our own 'Christian' beliefs? He has deceived many in and through our own faith! We must be discerning!

After thinking all of this through the other day, I looked into my spam folder, and I find this link on an email from my friend Ashley:

Demographic Winter: The Decline of the Human Family

Sounded kinda'... weird, so I went to see what it was all about. Here is what it says about the movie and site: "...seeks to reawaken society to the importance of the stable, intact family, and engender a discussion and greater focus in the media, in academia, in the halls of policy makers, in religious circles, in the committees of civil society and in households around the world. Our hope is that all of these circles will bring to bare on the problems facing the family the tremendous contributions each can uniquely make. In this way, we hope to avert the storm that is now most surely coming on."

WATCH The TRAILER

It is all relative to the family. And not just the family, but family size and convictions. God had a reason for opening and closing wombs in the Old Testament and the New. He is God; we are His people. It is simple. He is in control. We little humans plan our lives and worry about things and buy all of our stuff, and God is up there, probably wondering who we think we are. The Romans thought they were smarter than God. They weren't. They were the 'best' in their own eyes. They realized too late the importance of family and large ones at that. Study the history.

From the site:
Question: If the United States has near-replacement fertility, why should we care?
Answer:
All of the factors that are leading Europe into the depths of Demographic Winter are present in the United States as well, including high divorce rates, the rise of cohabitation, families putting off procreation to pursue careers, an anti-family culture and voluntary childlessness.
We may be a few decades behind Europe, but we’re heading in the same direction.
National economies are interconnected to such an extent that the impact of economic collapse in one country or region can be felt around the world.
The social, political and economic decline of previously stable nations can destabilize entire regions and create perils for neighbors and far-away allies. The United States is connected to Europe economically and through multiple security treaties.

I remember reading about how the Romans finally, at the time of Julius Caesar, realized their population was not at a pace where they would be able to keep up their own armies. How sad a realization come too late. It is sad that God devised a way for us to sustain ourselves throughout our lives, and we have allowed selfishness and pride to come in and steal all of that away from us. It was interesting the point made that soon there would be too many elderly and not enough young people working to keep our economy going. That seems impossible, but looking into demographics and man's mindset today, I can see it happening.

I have felt for some time that God has provided a way for families in all seasons. We have children who we are caring for, and we are living with and investing in them, and they will care for us in our old age. I believe this is God's provision and is handed down from generation to generation, if we live and teach accordingly.
I think the main lesson here is that we need to rely on God completely in this crazy, upside-down world. In all things. I am praying we can all come to a place in our lives to do just that.

blessings!

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11:43 AM, Sunday, March 9, 2008 .. Posted by Sunniemom
Good post about a tough subject. I'll never understand folks' fascination with the medical history and sex life of others, which IMO is what it boils down to when people get nosy about how many kids you have and how far apart they are spaced and when you stop bearing.

What- do I need to give them a record of how many times my husband and I get frisky, what medications we are on, what my dh's sperm count is, and the exact moment I become menopausal? If they aren't paying for the diapers and tennis shoes and corn flakes, what business it is of theirs whether we can 'afford' to have kids?

The confusion about convictions often involves a misunderstanding of sanctification as a growth process. Paul compared spiritual growth to physical growth, and the foods one can consume- going from milk to meat. Is it supposed to be an insult that some folks are spiritual babies? NO- we don't harass infants for not chomping down sirloin tips and mushrooms, but we aren't surprised when one day they are wolfing down meatloaf and taters and green beans and biscuits and gravy..... ok, now I'm hungry.

My point is, (and I do have one), is that we need to allow God to move hearts through His Word, and realize that what God is dealing with us about might not be what God is dealing with someone else about. He may be convicting one family about submitting to His will with regards to their family size, but another family who is not ready for that is learning spiritual discernment about the media, or issues of modesty, or giving up an unhealthy habit like smoking.

We do more harm than good when we trot out our own spiritual victories and start beating others over the head with them, and it reveals our own sense of pride. And guess what God is going to do to teach us a lesson in humility?

I notice that when I am prostrate at His feet, I can't see what anyone else is doing.

Sorry for the long post. :D

http://sunniemom.wordpress.com/

Enter through the narrow gate...

4:41 PM, Sunday, March 9, 2008 .. Posted by ThreeLittleLadies
I know the way to life is narrow, and difficult. As I walk out my convictions to follow the Word, I find that it becomes a more lonely path. You know you aren't alone - it just seems like it because we are all spread out!

Hugs!
Carol

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6:51 PM, Sunday, March 9, 2008 .. Posted by Stephanie10
What a fascinating documentary! I've heard/read about the "birth dearth" but hadn't seen so much information on it brought together for that kind of impact.

When Gary was preaching at a small congregation, one of the women took me aside and excoriated me for: not putting my children in the Bible classes (unless I was in there with them); homeschooling ("How can you and your kids be 'salt and light' if you're at home all day?); and having so many children ("There is No Way anyone can get more than two children to heaven." Meaning: Most of your children are going to Hell for eternity.). It really caught me off-guard. Maybe I should do a post about that whole two hour conversation sometime.

The Homesteading Carnival

2:30 AM, Monday, March 10, 2008 .. Posted by Erica Burgan
Just wanted to let you know The Homesteading Carnival is up over at The Sojourner - burganfamily.blogspot.com, so check it out and be sure to put a link on your blog to help spread the word! Thanks for your submission.

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5:35 PM, Monday, March 10, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous
I think it is absolutely wonderful that you have 8 {blessings from God }children.
I think the way you are standing on your convictions is great too.Keep on keeping on sister.
Thanks for this post.
Rachel

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8:27 AM, Tuesday, March 11, 2008 .. Posted by Vicki
Wow, I don't check your blog for a few days, and than I come back to find 4 or 5 new posts...*LOL* That will teach me...

I love your family...the whole large bunch!! *S*...I would love to have a large family some day, and can only hope that it is in God's plans for that to happen.

I am actually glad that you don't attend church..for so many years I have been looked down upon, because I don't attend church either. It's nice to know there is someone else out there that isn't finding what they need in church.

*HUGS*
Vicki

Hello!

10:30 AM, Tuesday, March 11, 2008 .. Posted by luvs2bemom
As I read this entry, I felt you had written it just for me. You see, I have just told my mother that we are going to have baby #5. I so dreaded telling her, because I knew she would not be happy. She has reacted that way with all the others. But I knew she would take this one especially hard. And she did. As I tried to explain that we had prayed about this she told me it would be the same if she went and laid in the highway and prayed that she wouldn't get ran over, but if she did then it was God's will. How crazy is that???? She is a Christian, but she doesn't get it!!! I had been so concerned about her feelings that it had made me an emotional wreck, but then she had no regards for my feelings. She is talking to me a little now, I'm just giving her time. I look at your family of 8 and think how awesome!! Please pray for me and my family!!
Belinda

Let me live out my convictions

11:11 PM, Tuesday, March 11, 2008 .. Posted by Anonymous
I have been meaning to comment on this post for a few days now. I just don't make the time for the blog stuff that I use to. I totally understand where you are coming from and give a big Amen on it all.
Where my church has for the most part been extremely wonderful and supportive of us (we are the second largest family there with 6 children, the other family has 9 and no one else has more then 3 or 4), there have been a few comments in the last seven years that have just made us stop and say 'what?!'
The past two years plus my dh has been battling a worker's comp case over a herniated disc in his back that keeps him from working. We have spent the last 16 months with no income at all and completely dependent on God for our needs. (Just for background purposes, I homeschool and have 6 children 10.5 and under.) We had one comment -not to our face, but a good friend mentioned it to my husband- that if we didn't have so many children we wouldn't be in this mess. So if we only had one child my husband would not have hurt himself at work?
Then there was the soul who thought to ask why I didn't go get a job. So my dh can't work but can manage to handle a house of children all day by himself- not to mention the fact that I am the main teacher, our youngest just turned one this month and is starting to finally wean himself a little, etc., etc., etc.
The way I see it, just chalk it up to totally not getting it. Some people just don't get that when God gives you a conviction you follow it no matter how much sense it makes to you or anyone else! We do not have God vision, we do not see life the way he does- don't knock us for going where he leads us, help us through it!

Kate
http://www.reflectionsofcalm.blogspot.com

Thank you for this post!

10:07 PM, Friday, March 28, 2008 .. Posted by Content-in-Christ
I just wanted to write in and say that Mom found your blog a few days ago, and I have been looking around some!
I�m not realy a �blogger�, but your blog has been an inspiration (and a few others I�ve looked at, your 2nd Daughter�s too) that I�ve set up one to actually �blog� on. I have informational �blogs� for my business ventures.
I have really enjoyed reading some of the things you�ve put down! Our family has also found that it's our 'Christian' friends that give us the biggest grief for some of the choices we have made as a family. That is such a SAD fact, and it SHOULDN'T be the case!!
What Mom found interesting was that we have a few things in common, as I�m the eldest of 10 children and I also raise Nubians!!
Jessica ;-)
http://content-in-christ.blogspot.com/

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