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May. 9, 2006
Is Public School An Option? Please Share....

“In the case of the government school system, it was never an appropriate means for educating Christian children, and frankly, when I speak to non-Christians, I tell them also that their children are being immeasurably harmed and that they should spare no effort in getting their children out.” – Dr. Bruce Shortt

 

Here’s a short interview I did with Dr. Bruce Shortt this week. You may have seen him last issue in our magazine, The Old Schoolhouse. Bruce is the individual, along with fellow Baptist Roger Moran, who has proposed a resolution for the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) that would exhort Baptist churches to come up with an “exit strategy” (and fast) to remove their children from the public schools.  I have to admit that what he and others like him are proposing makes a lot of sense to me. Schools today are nothing like they were 60 years ago. I am not sure how possible it is....and I am still trying to figure out how far I personally would take it. But the more I read and listen, the more I feel convicted that schools are just not an option for Christian kids. Parents MUST take a look at the risks of sending off their children for eight hours a day – to a godless system – one that not only lacks God, but hates God. I WOULD REALLY LIKE YOUR COMMENTS, HERE. Don't be afraid to tell me to drop dead. Please join in, even if you disagree. I am very interested in hearing what all of you think. Let’s talk to Bruce…

 

1. Bruce, what is the name of your book that just came out last year? Why did you write it? What is your message to the Church of America?

 

The title the publisher chose for my book is The Harsh Truth About Public Schools, but, if it had been up to me, it would have been something like Don't Leave any Child Behind: Why Christians Must Rescue their Children From Government Schools.

 

By way of background, let me mention that I went to public schools, as did my seven brothers and sisters; my mother was a school nurse; both my grandmothers were public school teachers; many of my uncles, aunts, cousins, etc. either are teaching or have retired from teaching in public schools; and, in the course of my career, I have had various points of contact with the system.

 

One of the greatest problems we have in discussing the public school system rationally is that it seems like such a "normal" part of life. Almost all of us went through it, and the same was true for our parents and grandparents. Historically, however, it is not America's original education tradition, which was thoroughly Christian and dominant into the mid to late 19th Century.

 

The book actually began as a series of chapter titles that I wrote down quickly one afternoon after having read yet another article about some facet of the insanity that we euphemistically refer to as the "public schools." A few days later I thought that perhaps I could use the chapter titles as the outline of a tract for Exodus Mandate, so I started writing. Before long it became apparent that the tract wanted to be a book. So, I decided that I would write a 120-140 page book that we could use in the ministry to explain to parents why they need to change how they are educating their children.  When the first chapter tipped the scales at a little over 50 pages, and when I realized that people would be skeptical of what I was saying without endnotes pointing readers to sources (I didn't want to have to end every paragraph like Dave Barry by saying "And I'm not making this up!"), I reconciled myself to writing something more substantial.

 

The result was a book that does three things. First, it presents within a very brief compass the Biblical explanation for why Christian parents are obligated to provide their children with a Christian education. That explanation is only a small part of the book because, unlike some areas of systematic theology, the theology regarding the education of our children is very straight forward.

 

The second thing the Harsh Truth does is look comprehensively at the fruit of our government school habit. As your readers know, Gena, Christ tells us that good trees bear good fruit and bad trees bear bad fruit, so what I did was examine in every major area the fruit of our government school habit. Not surprisingly, what you discover is that the fruit of that habit is not merely bad, it's rotten. The government's schools are not merely destroying our children spiritually, morally, and intellectually, but those in charge of the schools are lying to parents and the public about just about every measure of performance that is important. Moreover, most parents have no idea of the true extent of crime and violence with the schools, how the schools are an extremely hostile environment for boys, how the schools have become the nation's largest drug pusher, and why they are absolutely unreformable from even just a secular point of view.

 

Finally, I spend some time at the end of the book pointing parents who want to rescue their children (or grandparents who want to rescue their grandchildren) to Christian education resources. I also have some words of counsel for Christian teachers and administrators. 

 

Overall, I hope the book will help those already committed to Christian education deepen their understanding and commitment to what they are doing - I sometimes refer to it as the antidote for homeschooling fatigue and Christian school tuition fatigue.  The Harsh Truth is also intended help homeschool parents and others become effective EVANGELISTS for Christian education.

 

For those who are not committed to Christian education, or who think that giving your children to an aggressively anti-Christian institution to form their thinking, the book is intended to force them to think more deeply about the subject and challenge them to justify, as Christians, what they are doing in the education of their children.

 

Let me just mention, finally, that while I am a homeschool father (who actually does 99.9% of the homeschooling), Exodus Mandate and I advocate Christian education for our children. That encompasses homeschooling, Christian schools, University Model Schools, distance learning, co-op classes, and every other effective means of providing children with a Christian education.

 

2.  If we pull out all the Christians, are we not abandoning "the system" and all of those left behind?

 

I want to make it clear that I don't advocate "pulling all the Christians out." We need to rescue our children and send in those adults who are truly called to a ministry in the dark and decaying government school system. Those adults who are truly called will witness, regardless of Pharoah's rules, and not merely collect a paycheck.

 

To those who worry about "abandoning" the system, I would suggest that they have confused means with ends. Any system of education is simply a means, not an end. In the case of the government school system, it was never an appropriate means for educating Christian children, and frankly, when I speak to non-Christians, I tell them also that their children are being immeasurably harmed and that they should spare no effort in getting their children out.

 

As for the children whose parents will not remove them, removing our children is the kindest, most effective thing we can do to help them for several reasons.  Removing our children is a powerful witness that inevitably causes others to rethink what they are doing with their own children. In addition, the government school system is collapsing. The longer it takes to collapse, the more damage it does to children, families, our communities, and our culture. Removing our children hastens that collapse. In fact, if every Christian family took its children out tomorrow, the government school system would be thoroughly delegitimated publicly and would collapse financially. Then we as a society would have the first serious discussion about education in 150 years, rather than merely talking about "public school reform", which is just a euphemism for taxing parents more heavily to provide still more money to the special interest groups that comprise the government school system. Bear in mind, too, that leaving our children behind does no good and harms our children.

 

Obviously, I don't expect all or even most Christian parents to rescue their children immediately, but every family that does rescue its children moves us incrementally closer to the point where something substantive can be done to help the children of parents who simply don't care.

 

3. But what about school reform? 

 

As I have often said, the government schools are unreformable. That is, they are unreformable from the standpoint of the objectives and values of the typical parent. You will never understand the school system's behavior if you continue to think of it in terms of having "education" in any normal sense as its primary mission. Today, that is simply the wrong model for understanding the institution. One of the points I argue in the book is that you can only understand the behavior of the system if you recognize that its two primary functions today are (a) allocating roughly $600 billion a year among a very broad range of interest groups that are the system's political constituency and obtaining more money for those groups and (b) providing an ideological channel of influence for those elements of the government school special interests that have an ideological agenda that they want to advance through the schools (e.g. feminists and liberals have such an agenda, while architects and professional engineers typically don't).

 

Apart from the systematic argument that I provide in the book regarding the futility of school reform efforts, everyone should recognize that we have been going through spasms of "school reform" for many decades. The result has been a vastly greater flow of dollars to the government school special interest groups while the institution continues to decay.

 

4. Here's the clincher, Bruce. What's wrong with public school for a Christian? Can't they be salt and light?Is it a sin for a Christian to send their kids to public school? Or is it merely unwise? 

 

One of the things I find fascinating when talking to many Christians is their inability to reason Biblically when it comes to the subject of education. Let's begin with the term "sin". Both in the Old Testament and the New the word translated as "sin" comes from a term that means to "miss the mark" - as when someone is given a target to aim at and misses it. In context, then, "sin" is failing to meet a standard that God has set for us.

 

While there is a great deal that could be said on Biblical standards for education, let's stick to the basics. First, Christ tells us that we can't claim to be neutral with respect to him: we are either for him or against him [Matthew 12:30]. Education is no exception. In fact, in Ephesians 6:4 we are instructed to raise up our children in the training and instruction of the Lord. Are a few hours a week sufficient? The answer is quite clearly "no". As Deuteronomy 6:6-7 tells us, this training is to be going on all of the time. Why? Because as Proverbs 23:7 points out: "For as a man thinks, so he is..." Our education, in other words, determines more than any other single factor how we think. Christ makes this point forcefully in Luke 6:40: "A student is not greater than his teacher, and when he is fully trained, he will be like his teacher." Thus, when we give our children over to a K-12 educational system that is Constitutionally prohibited from being for Christ, we have made an anti-Christian institution our child's teacher. That is missing the mark - in other words, that is sin. But it is not merely a personal sin; it is also a sin that is likely to cause children to sin as well. All of us who are parents would do well to contemplate both Psalm 127:3 and Matthew 18:6 from time to time.

 

There is, of course, a great deal more that can be said to elaborate on this basic Biblical argument, but for those still resisting the obvious, I return to the "fruit of the tree" test. Every survey shows that the church is hemorrhaging children. Even though they may profess to be Christian, examination of their actual beliefs demonstrates that they are not. If you doubt this, take a look at the findings from Barna, the Nehemiah Institute, and Dr. Christian Smith's work. Indeed, this problem now affects the adults in our churches as well. Research by Dr. Thom Ranier, formerly at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and now head of Lifeway, indicates that about 50% of Southern Baptist church members may not be regenerate. On the other hand, students receiving a Christian education - and especially Christian homeschooled students and students attending FACE or ACCS schools - do well on Christian worldview tests.

 

If you are surprised by all of this, why should you be? All education teaches a worldview, and that worldview will be either Christian or something else. Government schools are prohibited from teaching a Christian worldview, so they must teach something else. Because a large majority of Christians have made the government schools their children’s teacher, how could we reasonably expect those children to emerge after the end of 12-13 years and not be "like their teacher?"

 

 

5. Bruce, what if a family can't afford to homeschool or private school? What if public school education is the only option?

 

Apart from working out our own salvation, we, as Christian parents, have no more important task on this earth than raising our children as the Bible commands us. If we are giving our children over to an anti-Christian institution for their education we are failing to be faithful, and we are harming our children spiritually, morally, and intellectually – perhaps even physically. Thus, the question for us cannot be, “Can we afford a Christian education?” Instead, it must be, “How are we going to do it?”

 

Those of us who are middle class Americans already have been graced with abundant means. If we ask, “Can we afford a Christian education?”, what we are really asking is whether we can provide our children one without disturbing our existing material priorities. Can you give your children a Christian education in a Christian school or by homeschooling without changing how you live? I don’t know, but all of us need to constantly remind ourselves that cars, boats, hobbies, clothes, vacations, large houses, and restaurant meals are all ephemera. Like our flesh, they will wither and fade. As parents we are obligated to ensure that the Word abides within our children and that they receive a Christian education.

 

For those of us whose material means are less than average, giving our children a truly Christian education seems a great challenge. Yet, in America we all tend to measure our material circumstances in relation to others, usually in relation to those whom we believe are doing better economically than we are. But consider our early American forebears.

 

In 18th and early 19th century Connecticut, for example, virtually everyone was literate, even though by today’s standards the well-to-do then would be considered to be living in shocking poverty. Even the “poor” in America today enjoy things that would have been unimaginable luxuries to the wealthy of that era. Early American children living in homes with dirt floors, without running water, and without central heating or air-conditioning received a Christian education because their parents couldn’t imagine having a higher priority than raising their children as God commands. They did whatever was necessary to demonstrate their faithfulness in the education of their children. If the means for doing so weren’t close at hand, they figured out how to provide what was needed as a community of Christians. We need to be mindful of their witness.

 

For those children whose family or financial circumstances are truly bleak, acting together as a community of Christians is the single most important thing we can do to ensure that all of the children in our churches can get a Christian education. Here, unfortunately, our churches have been AWOL. We seem to have money for massive building programs, retreats, conferences, and a host of other things that are secondary priorities at best. Yet, when it comes to providing a Christian education alternative to the neediest among us, we simply turn away. This is a scandal, and it needs to change. 

 

Thank you, Dr. Bruce Shortt, for talking with us today. I look forward to seeing the comments this blog interview generates. Hopefully, you’ll come back again soon to continue the conversation. - gena

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Comments

May. 9, 2006 - Thank you~

Bruce and Gena, thank you very much for this great interview! I have been reading with interest about this move in the SBC to encourage parents to pull their children out of the schools. I have homeschooled by conviction since my children were born, and that conviction grows stronger each day. I know that homeschooling is not an easy task, and is probably not for everyone, but I applaud encouraging parents in doing whatever they can and making whatever sacrifice is needed to see to it that their children have a truely Christian education. My husband and I live well below what many around us do, and have made many sacrifices to keep me home to educate our precious Gifts from God, and as I see my now teen and "preteen" children growing in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and man, I know those sacrifices have been well worth the effort.

Kimberly Eddy
www.joyfulmomma.org

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Wow, scary, I am the first one to post a comment?
I think this is a excellent talk, very hard to hear, but some things that should addressed is:
What if you are physically unable to homeschool? What about single mothers who have several children and have to work to support their family? Do church schools have a place and should they be more common than what they are? Is there easier ways to develop homschool coops that would help cope with some of these difficulties?

I could never send my children to public school, not only am I horrified by the long lines of children walking the sides of busy streets alone when school lets out, I have seen what happens to children exposed to large groups of children with only one teacher who can not hardly supervise them all.

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Hi, I enjoyed the interview. I belong to the SBCHEA and I support the new resolution to the Southern Baptist Convention. They already passed one resolution that exhorted Christians to get their kids out because of the homosexual teachings in the schools and other reasons. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/humpty/114806/
The new resolution is challenging the local churches to provide an alternative to public education. I am volunteering to be a messenger from our chuch to the convention because I want to vote for this new resolution.

I also support the Exodus Mandate and Get Your Kids Out.org.

When I was homeschooling my children K-12 (that are grown now) I never tried to get anyone to do what I was doing. I had a more "It's not for everyone" idea because of the conviction that I had and the committment it took.

I, now, think that it is a Christian's responsibility to "train up" their children in a godly atmosphere - at least not an ungodly one. How can we put our children in a place that is anti-Christ? Our children are our 1st mission field and they are not salty enough or light enough to be expected to enlighten the darkness of the public school. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/humpty/114473/

I will be back to read others responses.

Liz

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Sounds good to me. I was just explaining homeschooling to a friend in terms of us being "entrepreneurs" of a sort with respect to education -- in the same sense as one who goes into business and also the etymology of as "risk taker." Frankly, we cannot guarantee the outcome of our homeschoolers. But we can be confident that they will do better than if they are herded into a classroom to be brainwashed with AIDS awareness and everything else.

On a tangent, I'd like to know what we should plan for college. There is no way that our family or other homeschool families we know can afford a pricey Christian college. I've planned on sending my kids to my alma mater, a public university "commuter school" where Deb and I met 20 years ago. This place was totally liberal back then. But we definitely were "salt and light" in that environment. And since there would be no dorms and little "campus life" to influence our adult kids, we'd consider that a reasonable option. So what's the flip side to that?

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Does public schools teach the fear of the Lord? Do we want our children to be educated/indoctrinated or become wise unto Salvation?

Take time to read Proverbs 6:20-23, 7:2,3:21-24. See how that compares to Deutronomy 6:5-9.

Also have you ever heard a sermon preached on Malachi 2:15 "That he might seek a godly seed?" What about a sermon on Malachi 4:6 " And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children and the heart or the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

God desires a relationship with his image bearers. The way he does it, is within the family. The parents are to teach the children all during the day, if they are doing that they should have a good relationship with their children. If the children have a good relationship with thier family, then they are more likely to have a good relationship with the Heavenly Father.

We are taught to love God with all our heart, soul and mind Mark 12:30. Who do you want training your child's mind?

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Oh, I forgot to say that I am homeschooling my grandson, now, so I am still in the ballgame.

Liz

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May. 9, 2006 - Untitled Comment

This was a fascinating read. I need to get that book, this interview wasn’t long enough...

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May. 9, 2006 - Exodus

I am having trouble logging on, so... Yes, if we really think about it, we boycott those companies who support things we do not agree with. Wouldn't it make sense to boycott a system that is turning the hearts of our children away from the Lord's ways? As a family as we have studied the ways the pilgrims educated their children and the ways many of our founding fathers were educated and compare that with what is going on today, we are amazed. The fruit of their Godly education impacted morals, crime, contributed to a tremendous work ethic, positively influenced our nation and carried faith through to subsequent generations. Parents saw that the responsibility of educating their children rested on their shoulders and took it seriously. As we have allowed an ungodly institution take over our responsibility, the consequences have been devastating and grievous. Thank you for posting this interview. It needs to be discussed for the sake of our future posterity.

Blessings,
lisa@lighthousefarm.com

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May. 9, 2006 - Amen!

I was especially impressed by this point:
when we give our children over to a K-12 educational system that is Constitutionally prohibited from being for Christ, we have made an anti-Christian institution our child's teacher. That is missing the mark - in other words, that is sin.

Nobody likes to hear these words...both Christian and Non-Christians. The language is harsh...it's the truth, and honestly, people just aren't used to it! It would be easier to ignore this and turn away than to stand against the norm and make a CHANGE. People are also afraid that they will "hurt someone's feelings" by telling them they are wrong... Which is also why I do not believe this will pass in the SBC...and if it does, I think it will lead to some sort of split.

When you started the whole Bring Them Home campaign on your blog, Gena, I did flinch a little when I would read your words. Not necessarily because I disagreed with what you said, but because my "agreeing" involved my own family...not me telling everyone else what I really think they should do! I think that was a big adjustment for me.

Yes, I think the public schools are horribly corrupt and their agenda and pull is stronger than anyone realizes-- and getting stronger and worse every day. But I hate conflict. So I don't tell my sister that I think she is SO DEAD WRONG when she says "Well, our schools here are pretty good so I'll send Benjamin there when he's older." Ouch. That would probably cause problems...

Just as we need to be bolder in proclaiming Jesus Christ, we need to be bolder in educating the public (and our loved ones) about the harsh reality of the public school system, as well as what God has called us to do in properly training our children. So thank you Bruce (and Gena!) for doing so boldly something that I have been timid about in the past. Your strong stance gives me strength and confidence in showing everyone the truth!

Man, I feel like I should go have a rally now or something! ;-)

Marsha

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May. 9, 2006 - THANK YOU THANK YOU!

I so enjoyed the sound reasoning and Biblical insight Dr. Shortt offers here. I couldn't agree more. In fact, the truth is, most of us don't even know the damage the public educational system did to our own worldview growing up. We were not taught that we were special and important, only that we were related to apes. We were not taught that God created us for a purpose, only that we were the masters of our destiny. We were not taught that our value was in our being made in the image of God, only that we must perform to be valuable. We were assured there were no moral standards for behavior, and our peers reinforced this by rewarding certain behavior with popularity and acclaim. The messages children receive in school are not only unbiblical, they are antibiblical. The light that might have been like a city on a hill is slowly and tragically extinguished without the foundation of a Biblical Worldview.

Thank you. I intend to purchase this book right away!

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May. 9, 2006 - Good interview Gena!

This is a great forum. I hope everyone goes and read's the interview that Lorrie wrote too in TOS, the Winter issue, page 82. You know, reading Jeannie's comments just now really blew me away, because she voiced my exact thoughts. It wasn't until Jesus came into my life and heart in 1988 that I realized I was special, (because He made me) and that I wasn't some crazy cosmic accident. (Or a product of the lie, evolution.) Public school was the worst possible way to be raised, it was just one big lie after another.

I am so thankful that our eyes have been opened and we now know the truth. Yes, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Keep telling everyone! I can't wait to read Dr. Shortt's book.

Blessings,
Nancy

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May. 9, 2006 - WOW

He answers all questions EXACLTY how I feel about some of those questions and never been able to put together in my own head. Thank you for posting it.

Pam

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May. 9, 2006 - It's about speaking truth~

I'm kind of like Marsha in that I don't like conflict so I'm hesitant to tell others what they should do about educating their children. I think each parent is responsible for prayerfully seeking God's will in the matter.

What I think we need to do is to just speak the truth about the anti-God basis of public schools. Since most parents were raised by the public schools themselves, they don't know any differently unless we share with them what they are missing. When I used to teach public school, I had no idea about the system itself so I can see how Christian parents can miss it as well.

Now I think they are even desensitized to what is going on. We need to speak the truth.

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May. 9, 2006 - i don't know

i don't think that it is a "sin" if you send your child into the public school system, that is for sure. i think that you have to look at it case by case. i went to a public school until i graduated from high school. i think i left largely uneffected. i will also say that the vast majority of teachers in my schools were very involved in local churches. my science teachers spent little time on evolution because they did not believe it and encouraged us to bring our bibles to school to debate the issues. that was in a fairly small town and it is not so much that way anymore. the teachers that i had in high school were my mom's teachers when she was in high school, they also taught my brothers. in the last 7 years since i have graduated most of those teachers have retired and it is a new ball game. i would not send my child to the schools that i attended. my sil lives in the middle of nowhere south dakota. there are about 100 kids in the entire school system where she lives. they all know each other very well. i would not have a problem with my kids going to school there because it is such a small tight knit community. but here is the thing, i would almost rather send my kids to a public school than to a "christian" school. for one, most of the kids kicked out of my public school were enrolled in the christian schools in our area. for another, most christian school kids/teachers are not christian at all in the way they act and live their lives. i think that can be completely confusing, especially to younger kids. i expected there to be this MAJOR difference when I went off to an at-the-time pretty conservative christian college. i was sorely disappointed. i found out that most kids in the college were full of it, and that is not the holy spirit. it really hurt me spiritually.
i think that it takes a lot more to stand up and stand out as a christian in a public school because you are forced to be different if that is what you choose to be, and i do believe that it can be done. i think that if kids are being raised in a godly environment and being taught right from wrong at home that they can make it in a public school if need be. i think it is so much easier to blend into the walls of a christian school where everyone assumes you are a christian and everyone carries on the act, yet they are doing the same things the kids in public schools are doing.
that is why i choose to homeschool. i think that it is just as bad to throw your child into a christian school and there are no "good" public schools around here ... even though the elementary school dd is zoned for is a national school of excellence. i feel like the only way she will get what she needs and be spared the fruits of any school system is to keep her home where she belongs.

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May. 9, 2006 - I needed this today

Seems I spend too much time avoiding conflict and not enough time speaking truth.

nuff said

Melanie

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May. 9, 2006 - I do not agree!

"In the case of the government school system, it was never an appropriate means for educating Christian children, and frankly, when I speak to non-Christians, I tell them also that their children are being immeasurably harmed and that they should spare no effort in getting their children out.” – Dr. Bruce Shortt

You can not expect a pulic school to be Christian that is not there job. There job to the best of their ability is to teach. Not to teach religion of any kind in my opinion. If you want your local public school to teach christian values then of course it would be wrong to send your child to a public school. If you are just expecting public schools to teach your kids reading, writing and math. Then let them go to public school. I think it is extreme to say that all Christian kids should get out of public school. I know public school teachers and kids who go to public school they sit with me at church I interact with them. Are the kids horrible mean or imeasurably harmed. NO! Do you want to know why? Becuase there parents are doing there job and teaching them biblical values when they are not in public school.

In short just what homeschoolers need right now be public school haters. Great lets just make things worse then they are. What about loving others and showing compassion.

Religion should be taught at home not in public schools.

I am tired of hearing how much Homeschoolers hate public schools. I do not hate public schools. God just placed it on my heart to teach my son. Show some compassion!


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May. 9, 2006 - Amen

SO MANY PARENTS are blind to what public schools really are. I can't wait to read the book!

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May. 9, 2006 - by the way

i do understand the overall agenda of the public school system and i know that it is not good. but, as i said i think it varies from school to school what is actually taught from that agenda. i do agree that in sending a child to a public school you are not sending them there to be educated in religious matters and that no matter where you do send your child to school their foundation must be laid at home.

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May. 9, 2006 - I agree.

I posted on this earlier this week also. Reform for me would have to include complete adherence to Christian values. I don't see that happening without an ugly fight. I don't have time to wait for the godless system to get fixed while my kids grow up. I choose homeschool.

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May. 10, 2006 - Untitled Comment

AMEN and Hallelujah! :)

Lis

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May. 10, 2006 - I love that this book has been written...

I've blogged about this in where I discuss the struggle I have to understand why fellow Christians would put their children in public schools. I don't want to come across as judgemental, but I just don't get it!!! It honestly frustrates me and almost reduces me to tears. If Christian Americans don't recognize the travisty of the horribly flawed system, then who will?

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May. 10, 2006 - Untitled Comment

I completely agree. I used to be pretty wishy-washy about the whole subject...I would tell people that homeschooling was what we had been called to do, but that it probably wasn't for everyone. Surely, it was okay for some Christians to have their kid's in public schools if that's what they felt led to do. But the more time that passes, and the more information that I find out about the state that public schools are in....now I completely believe that Christian children should NOT be in public schools at all. This is causing problems in my personal life, as my two best friends have their children in public schools, and both of them tell me constantly that their school's are "different". To be perfectly blunt....I think that's a cop out. I think that it's just easier to send their kids off to school every day than to take responisibility for their education themselves. I just haven't had the guts to tell them that yet. Sigh.

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May. 10, 2006 - The Example of Daniel

Whenever I think of kids in a public education setting, I think of the story of Daniel. Daniel and many other intelligent and comely boys from Israel were forcibly taken from his home by the enemy and placed in the pagan education system. For four of these--Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Adebnego--- this worked our well --in the sense that they remained true to God and to the precepts of their families. These young men were tempted to betray their God, the heritage, and their Law, and yet they remained true. They were able to show the power and glory of God in that situation and to accomplish great things for him. Yet it was not without sacrifice. They were shunned by many of their peers and eventually,as they grew into adults in that society, all faced bullying of the worst sort: three were thrown into a blazing fire and one was thrown to the lions. Only the miraculous hand of God saved them.

On the other hand, all the other children of Israel that were brought into that situation apparently quickly forgot their family values and their God. They ate of the king's meat as children, in clear violation of their covenant with God. Later, they apparently all bowed the knee to Baal. In short, they were assimilated into the pagan culture.

These do not seem like good odds to me. I know of parents who leave their kids in as a witness. Sometimes this works---sometimes it backfires. But not all homeschooled kids turn out that great either. The world still surrounds them, too. But for us, we determined that our odds of success were much greater by having the kids at home. My kids are still influenced by the world, but at least we able to monitor that and to discuss situations as they arise--to provide godly counsel that will hopefully benefit them in the future. We know where they are. We know what they are doing. We know who their friends are. That is our job. And it is hard to do when they are at the school of the pagan king all day long.

Perhaps God wants some kids in the public schools. But unless mine are kidnapped and placed there, I don't want to run the risk. The odds don't look good. And the choice of having them face either temptation or persecution seems a hard burden for a child to bear, though I know that most of us have to bear it eventually as adults..

On the other hand, I don't think we should judge parents who have kids in the ps system. God needs to deal with their hearts and give them wisdom and perhaps books like this will help. In the meantime, we can only tell them about how much we love homeschooling, provide them with information as they request it, encourage them to stay involved in their child's school (this opens many an eye), and pray for them as they dwell in the school of the pagan king.

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May. 10, 2006 - Untitled Comment

The reason so many Christian, bible believing parents send their kids to public school is, in a word: FREE.

While they want more for their kids, they just do not desire to make the sacrifice necessary to either private school or homeschool. Afterall there are van payments to make, dance lessons to take, eating out, and all those "necessary" things to keep up with the Joneses at church.

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May. 10, 2006 - Untitled Comment

I've heard the "salt and light" argument and my answer to that is ... the Bible is silent on Jesus's childhood. We hear about His birth, then 12 years later we hear about Him in temple, then at age 33 He starts His ministry. If God Himself didn't think His son was called to ministry until He was 33 why do we feel pressured to have our children be witnesses in an openly anti-Christian environment?

The other big issue for me is that public school is also anti-family. They are actively working at fracturing families by insisting that children need to be in a government school earlier and earlier. They instill in children that their parents are not smart enough, or compassionate enough and that only their peers are fit companions. I see so many siblings who are public schooled and hate each other. It's so sad. God designed the family to be the place children learn socialization not the artificial social situation that is our government schools.

Lastly, has anyone ever thought of how Hitler gained control of Germany....control of the youth through their "schools." YIKES!

I praise God several times a day that we homeschool and I see the fruit in my children.

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May. 10, 2006 - salt and light?

I hear that "salt and light" expression way too much, implying that we should be sending our children into the battlefield to conquer darkness. How many of these parents are being "salt and light" just as extensively in their own lives? Why are they sending their children out to be soldiers in their place?

If any other institution were as dangerous as our schools are, we wouldn't hesitate to avoid it, and to boldly speak out against it. How many businesses have gone under financially because they were in a bad neighborhood, or a murder had been committed there? If police have to be stationed there on a regular basis, would we go there? If it smacks of danger, we very sensibly avoid it! But school after school is revealed to be a dangerous place. Police are stationed at the doors and metal detectors greet the students each day. Yet we still send children there, to be salt and light?

Nothing will change until we decide to think for ourselves. We've bought the lie that only the governmentally trained teachers can educate our children. We need to renew our minds.

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May. 10, 2006 - SBC

gena,
I am in total agreement with everything said. Parents, even Christian parents, have been in the system for so long, they are blinded by all of the changes that have slowly crept into the government schools.

Sadly, many Christians, put their children in private schools, but quickly find that they are paying for something they can get "FREE" in government schools. It might be "free" now, but what will they pay later???

It breaks my heart to see friends sacrificing their children.

Karen White
HSN-Alabama

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May. 10, 2006 - Very interesting!

I cannot comment on what the government school system in the USA is like, but I can say that, in some ways, the same sort of things are happening over here in the UK. Both my hubby and myself are products of the state school system here - I did well (head down, got on withthe work and then went straight home - a proper "Goody-2-shoes"); hubby did not as he took no examinations and waited until he was in his 30s to do a degree. Our son went to a "Faith" school (Church of England) until he was almost 9 - he was taught more about the ethenic minority religions than his own, and was horribly bullied. He told one of his teachers that his only friend at school was God, and that felt not even God was listening to his problems.

We made the decision to homeschool when he was almost pushed down a concrete stairway. As for being able to afford this, well, we struggle - I have cancer, my hubby is my carer, so we do not have a wage coming in (I get a disability benefit). However, we do without other things as we believe that God wants our son to be happy whilst he learns - not to learn in fear!

Thank for a thought-provoking read.
Chrissy

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May. 10, 2006 - SBCHEA Supports 2006 Exit Strategy Resolution

Gena:

Thank you for sending me this link to Bruce's interview. The media coverage over the 2004 resolution debate is what made our Southern Baptist homeschooling ministry possible. We will forever be grateful to him for it!

We appreciate the support of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine, for being a sponsor for our 2006 Kingdom Education Summit, on June 14th, 2006 in Greensboro, NC. Some of the most respected leaders in the Southern Baptist Convention are speaking at the conference, to show their support for homeschooling! www.sbchea.org

Soli Deo Gloria,
Elizabeth Watkins, Executive Director
Southern Baptist Church & Home Education Associaton

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May. 10, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Even if sending our DC to public school isn't a sin, do we really want to expose them to something like this? Keep preaching it sister, "Home Where They Belong!" (btw, I got the link from Spunky)

God Bless,
Amber

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May. 11, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Gena, I would like to invite you to visit my blog and submit an article for the 20th homeschooling carnival which I will be hosting! You can find the information on my blog! Have a great day!

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May. 11, 2006 - Yep...Bring 'em home!

I SO agree. I wrote about this same sort of thing in my blog article, "A Solid Foundation in a Shaky World." I agree that we need Christians in the school system - but send in more adults as teachers and administrators NOT children! I also go into some of this in my workshop "Homeschooling as a Lifestyle." As Bruce noted, Jesus did say, in Luke 6:40, that a student WILL be like his teacher. I'm living proof. Before I was a Christian I was very involved in the occult (now called New Age). My favorite teacher in my freshman year taught me to use I-Ching coins, tarot cards and numerology. Once my niece started public school and changed so much and then I became a Christian, I KNEW all this would only get worse - I was right.

By homeschooling, we have avoided so much of what other teens go through. We have experienced no teen rebellion. If there were any hints of rebellion it ALWAYS appeared, sad to say, after some sort of youth group outing...99% of whom are ps kids. Whenever any sort of "tude" started to sprout, we immediately nipped it in the bud. They knew that that kind of behavior was NOT expected nor tolerated here.

Bruce Shortt also has "Homeschooling Family to Family" - encouraging "homeschool evangelism" through encouraging friends/family who show ANY interest in homeschooling to DO IT! A large part of that is by mentoring them. I think this is awesome! PLUS - by increasing the numbers of homeschoolers, as Bruce says, we're protecting our ability to homeschool simply by the power and influence of our numbers. Especially if those homeschoolers vote!

As for lifestyle - we have done w/o alot of material things - but we're not suffering. Gena, you've been here...are we suffering? We still have a great home and all we NEED because the Lord is good. We purposely chose very small-town life both because of the better lifestyle and also because we can get MUCH more house for much less $$. We do things like belong to a food co-op; I fix ALOT from scratch. I also make alot of my house-hold cleaners and spice mixes from recipes I've found on http://www.homesteadblogger.com. More work goes into what we do and how we live, but I think we're better people and a closer family because of it - besides, it can be counted as HOMESCHOOL!

BTW, I drive a van that has 168,000+ miles on it and my dh's car has 208,000+ miles on it but they do what they're supposed to do!

JAY...our oldest dd is graduating in a few weeks. She will be doing on-line college.

BEK...WOW! Where did you go to public school? Sounds like you attended the 1 in a million. I've never heard of a public school who had mostly Christian teachers and encouraged the kids to bring their Bibles to school! VERY RARE and I'm sure the NEA knew nothing about it.

MIA...I mentioned the example of Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in my "Solid Foundation" article, as well.

Blessings from Ohio, Kim Wolf<><

Edited by Buckeyeblog on May. 11, 2006 at 10:20 AM

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May. 11, 2006 - Untitled Comment

I completely agree that Christians should diligently train their children in the faith (Deut. 6), but I fear that the call for an "Exodus" will only serve to make us look more like religious nuts to most other Christians. You may as well tell them that from this day on we're going to drive our cars on the left side of the road. Most Christians I know see no problem with public schools and in fact believe that homeschoolers are denying our call to "go ye unto all the world" by keeping our kids at home. It's sad.

Oh well...I've been called worse...

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May. 12, 2006 - A Different Opinion

This is my first time on this interesting website. I stopped by at the request of a mom friend who homeschools. She said she would like to know my opinion regarding this interview and that the moderator would too. I told her I felt hesitant to comment, but she repeated that the moderator wants all responses. So here is my response…

Like many Christians of my generation, I grew up 100% public school educated. When I had my own children, my husband and I carefully thought through and prayed about what route to educate them. We decided to send our kids to public school, fully believing that God blesses, guides, and protects when we live in the center of His will. It seems other parents (like the interviewee), believe it’s clearly a “sin” to send children to public school (therefore never God’s will), but I don’t believe that to be true. Sometimes God calls us to leave Sodom. And sometimes God calls us to go to Ninevah. If the Bible said we were always to leave Sodom and just condemn Ninevah from afar and hope it falls apart, then maybe I could agree. But Scripture doesn’t say that. Jonah is actually reprimanded for spitefully and happily sitting down to watch the “Destruction of Ninevah Show”.

I can’t agree that by sending our kids to public school that they are “immeasurably harmed” or that we are sinning and “missing God’s mark” for us. Nor can I agree that it is the only/best way to educate children. My children have been doing very well, on all counts: spiritually, socially, and intellectually. I might even have to say that my children might be immeasurably harmed and rendered useless for the kingdom by being somewhere they AREN'T supposed to be. Our family is at peace that we are doing what God wants for right now. It can certainly change, but until then, we will faithfully stay the course. And I can say the exact same thing about friends who homeschool. They know they are being obedient to God’s will for this time in their lives. I completely respect that and believe God honors their actions. I don't talk about them as if they are clueless and gee, I hope they get enlightened one day, like some people on this site have commented about people who choose public school. It's arrogant and judgmental to talk that way about someone else's choices before God.

I have some issues w/ the interviewee’s use of Scripture as proof for his exhortation to “rescue” children from “harm” of public schools. I see nowhere in Scripture that children are described as incapable of being an effective witness or ambassador for Christ. If anything, we read of examples of Christ ministering as a child, of Christ including children, not having them separated off from the crowds, most of which were secular and even potentially dangerous, certainly controversial. Christ even singled out a young boy to help teach a message to a hungry crowd.

My husband and I do not irresponsibly send our children into the public schools like some rebel forces send in orphaned boys to fight with weapons they can barely hold. We have entered this decision as a FAMILY. We as the adults, interact and build relationships at the school too. We together, are part of God’s plan there. I disagree with the statements/comments that criticize parents for “using” their children as salt and light as if we’re mercilessly shoving them into public school. Does the Bible say only adults are to be salt and light wherever God places them in the world? No, it does not. Wherever he calls us, no matter our age, we should live out that mandate. Don’t exempt your children from it. It’s unbiblical to exempt them. That does not mean you have to put them in public school to be a witness. I’m just saying kids are not exempt.

I am not writing this comment b/c I’m against home schooling. I am definitely not. But I am not against public schooling either. I am not MORE for either. I AM FOR DOING GOD’S WILL and putting NO man’s agenda or system or indoctrination before that. And I am for teaching kids to think critically, to discern truth with their spirits submitted before God, and to know how to discern good counsel/instruction/information - at home, at school, and elsewhere. I am NOT for indoctrination and calling that an education. That, to me, is like living under a dictatorship where there is little to no opportunity to freely analyze all the evidence and then decide what is true. This interviewee seems to equate education with indoctrination – it’s the Christian way or the highway. In his opinion, all Christian parents are “obligated” to indoctrinate their kids. I don’t think that’s education. That’s controlled information dissemination - just like in a communist country where there are no freedoms, no objectivity, and no opportunity to know all sides of an issue. And certainly, public schools can be equally indoctrinating w/ their agendas and values. EITHER SYSTEM would fail to best serve a child’s education by being this extreme in seeking to indoctrinate, rather than educate.

My first-hand experience with public schools is that they are not as criminal as this interviewee seems to observe. Yes, there are SOME non-Christian values being promoted. Yes, there is SOME non-Christian behavior. Yes, there are SOME things your kid gets exposed to that you’d prefer they not be exposed to. But that can be said about most CHURCHES too. I don’t want my kid to learn that back-biting and hateful behavior are ok, but they could learn that from some churches better than in public school. That kind of wrong behavior is punished better in most public schools than at most churches. I don’t want my kid to be exposed to sexual immorality, but it’s in the church too. I don’t want my kid to act self-righteous, judgmental, bigoted, or prideful, but they sure can learn all that sinful behavior from Christians just as easily as in public school. Who really should be protected from whom? Who really should be rescued from whom? Are we not all sinners at the foot of the cross? Which sins of others are truly more condemnable and which do Christians conveniently overlook amongst themselves? Why act so morally superior?

Most theory presented in public school classrooms is not ANTI-Christian even though some fearful Christians seem to need to conclude this. Merely presenting some opposing theory does not make an entire situation ANTI-Christian. It scares some people, but it shouldn't. There will always be some teachers who like to indoctrinate, not educate, but any student who is learning to analyze truth for themselves, and has family support and access to wise counsel, will be capable of refuting and rejecting false persuasions. It’s a skill every child needs if they are exposed to movies, tv, internet information, the evening news, or other people in general. To me, education is not telling a child what to believe by only presenting the Christian perspective. It’s teaching them how to use the right tools and methods to discover truth for themselves.

Last week, my son brought his Bible to his first grade class because he was student of the week and could bring personal items from home to share about. He chose to bring His Bible with absolutely no prompting from me or my husband. In his class, he read a passage from Proverbs and Psalms. In public school. His teacher told him he should become a preacher because he read and shared about the scriptures so well. Before he started reading aloud to the class, he, with no hesitation, asked for a show of hands, “How many of you go to church?” All but 3 children raised their hands. Once again, this is public school. In a dominantly liberal/democratic city and state. In the MOST unchurched region of America. My son’s classmates and their families may not all be Christians, but they are at least seekers. Our family sees that as an opportunity to journey with others who may need us along the way. God has a reason for why He placed us here, in the most unchurched region of America, in a public school. And my son is faithfully doing his part in his sphere of influence at school. I doubt a Christian adult, (the only “allowable” people in public schools according to the interviewee), could’ve gotten away with what my son did. God loves each of my son’s classmates and everyone else my FAMILY’S lives touch at his school. Good thing my son was there that day – being used by God. Good thing we don’t believe we’re sinning by being in public school as a family. Good thing we’ve obeyed the call to go to Ninevah and not just watch it fall apart. Unlike the interviewee, I refuse to hope that the public school system falls apart. Anyway, I doubt I’d want the kind of changes he would want in the imaginary rebuild. What I would ideally want is an equitable, informational presentation of all viable theory in subjects, without indoctrination. I would NOT want a purely Christian perspective in public schools. And I would want more training in critical thinking and research so that children could learn to discern truth.

Not everyone’s called to Ninevah, but some of us are. And it’s not just to smugly watch the fireworks of destruction, but rather to serve as agents of transformation as Jonah eventually did, in a situation that looked far more hopeless than our public schools. Nothing is hopeless before God. And those of us He calls to engage in the transformation better step up and do so regardless of the criticism from fellow Christians. I’d appreciate not being labeled “sinful” for my obedience, especially by someone who likes to encourage people to actively participate in the downfall of others. Where is the Christianity in that? The spirit of that exhortation by the interviewee disturbs me greatly.

-Christina

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May. 15, 2006 - Thanks for your great interview.


Well said!

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May. 15, 2006 - Urgent message

I would not describe this article as judgemental. I would describe this article as an urgent message that needs to be shared. The fact that Christian children are leaving the faith is devastating and tragic. Drastic situations call for drastic answers. If 90 some percent of public-educated Christian children are leaving the faith, we should all be on our knees and crying out to God Almighty. Something is dreadfully wrong. The best place to look for answers is God's word. What went wrong and what is the answer?

With the same amount of certainty that 2+2=4, we can conclude that an institution that has banned the study of the Bible and forbids an acknowledgement of God will fail. God is clear about that in His Word. How many prophets did He send to Israel with the same message? How many times has He exhorted us with the same message throughout Scripture. If we do not follow His ways, obey His commands, love Him, it will not go well with us. God also has never sent a child (under 12) into a Ninevah-type situation. Children were supposed to be with their parents. THe public education system is not one that has ever been instituted by Scripture. It is all many of us have known, but one never commanded by God at all. In fact, its origins are very pagan (Babalonian, Greek, Roman). Karl Marz also had a significant impact on our education system, believe it or not which could account for the increasing socialism that we are seeing in our country today. Education is defined in Scripture in Deut 6:6-7. We as parents are commanded by God to educate our children about God's ways and commands at all times thorughout the day. We're not obligated to indoctrinate, we're commanded to live it and teach it.

I am still growing in this for I was indoctrinated in the public education philosophy for 17 years of my life. But as I grow in the Lord's ways of education the fruit is absolutely astounding to me. It actually humbles me. The other night we watched a DVD put out by AnswersInGenesis that was presented by a professor entitled, "Fearfully and WOnderfully Made". This Godly professor presented from a biological point of view some of what the Lord meant when He says we were knit together in our mother's womb. Our 10 and 6 year olds were amazed. What am I saying, my husbεnd and I were amazed!! Right then and there we discussed with awe what a miracle worker our Holy God is and worshipped Him. None of my college-level biology classes EVER caused me to worship God. It was presented as dull, happenchance facts. I missed out. THere is nothing dull about the Author and Creator of life! The next day, our children excitedly told their grandparents about the lecture and how awesome God is and how this refuted evolution. Now THAT is evangelism. Shouldn't that be the fruit of any education? Not only to bring us into worship, but also to testify to the works of our Almighty God?

Humbled,
lisa@lighthousefarm.com

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Disclosure: I am the co-publisher of The Old Schoolhouse Magazine. All content on my blog, however, is made up of my own opinions and the Home Where They Belong team. The team and I are never paid to blog something for a company or individual with a message they wish to get out in one of our posts. Even my "pick of the week" section is simply a "show and tell" area in the blog which allows me to share resources I come across. Some however, are items included in The Old Schoolhouse Magazine's online shopping cart, which profits the company and specifically, myself. None of these companies have paid me to feature them in this section, nor do I expect them to advertise on any of our websites, enewsletters or the print magazine in return. Any questions? Gena@TheHomeschoolMagazine.com is where I can be reached.





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