Dec. 21, 2007
Huckabee and Homeschoolers (Part 2)

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Dec. 18, 2007 - More Context on Huckabee and Homeschooling

Posted by joesteinbeck

I personally feel that Spunky's posts (particularly, the first) give an inaccurate view of Governor Huckabee's strong record defending homeschoolers. For those who would like to read both sides, please use the link below:

http://www.hucksarmy.com/downloads/huckabee_homeschool_record.pdf

Spunky has reported trouble viewing that document. Is anyone else having trouble?

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Dec. 18, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Spunky

Joe,

I'm very willing to change any portion of any post that is factually incorrect, please quote where I have misrepresented him and provide the documentation to support your version. I have linked to all my sources so anyone who is uncertain where my quotes or documentation came from can read the documents in their entirety. I am very interested in being factually correct and would willingly correct any errors in my articles.

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Dec. 18, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Spunky

Joe, I was sent a copy of the file and I have not seen where I misrepresented Mike Huckabee. I noted that it was a homeschool father who introduced the legislation, I noted that he was up against Democrats who want to restrict laws. I have given him credit for the 1997 law. I have given him credit for appoint a homeschooler. I have linked to all the same sources as your PDF. But nothing in that document answers why he didn't veto the legislation or leave it unsigned. Nor does it answer the thoughts about the 1998 legislation which prompted the stricter homeschool laws in 1999.

So unless some new information nothing in this document dispells the assertions I have made.

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Dec. 18, 2007 - Joe, If I may be so bold...

Posted by CookieMonster (OneMom that's not One Mom)

Joe,
I believe that you and Spunky are looking at the same facts. You both acknowledge the same various pieces of legislation.

The difference lies in how you interpret Huckabee's voting, particularly on that one piece of legislation. You feel, according to the sheet you referenced, that Huckabee's voting for the legislation was a move in favor of homeschoolers. Spunky has eloquently stated why she is not so quick to feel that it was a move in favor of homeschoolers and homeschooling.

She feels, as I understand it, that Huckabee could have made a stronger stance for homeschoolers by not signing the bill and wishes he had done so.

There is no difference in the evidence presented, just in the conclusions drawn from the evidence about the possible future policies of Huckabee. Continuing to assert that Spunky is somehow misrepresenting the facts just because she doesn't interpret them as you do is not helpful to the discussion.

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Dec. 19, 2007 - AAAawwwww!!!!!

Posted by lilie

Aw she is soooo cute.I love the verse you posted by Longfellow I have heard some of his verses but not that one.

Lilie

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Presidential Candidate

Posted by Anonymous

Support Ron Paul for President. He supports homeschoolers!
"The federal government does not own our children. Yet we act as if it does by letting it decide when, how, and what our children will learn. We have turned their futures over to lobbyists and bureaucrats. I support giving educational control back to parents, who know their children better than any politician in D.C. ever will. The federal government has no constitutional authority to fund or control schools."
www.ronpaul.org

~Christa

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Let's Look Clearly at Mike Huckabee

Posted by Bates Estabrooks

Other than the issue of Huckabees's support, or otherwise, of homeschooling in Arkansas, there is more about the man that we, particularly as Christians, need to consider. This article from the Wall Street Journal is instructive:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110010782

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Do you remember HR6?

Posted by Anonymous

I just re-read Spunky's excerpt from Cathy Duffy re. P-16. I'm reminded of OBE and the HR6 fight which, mercifully, we won back then. With Huckabee as Pres. and a Democrat-controlled congress, the end this time could be very different.

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Oops!

Posted by Bates Estabrooks

"Anonymous", above (re. HR6) is me. Sorry.

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Spunky

Bates,

Yes, we won that fight but we are losing the long term war. OBE and School-to-work were pronounced dead and gone, but the reformers changed their tactics, changed their terms, and went after it incrementally throough the states. The American Competes Act establishes some of the very reforms we fought hard to defeat a decade ago.

And you are exactly right, with a Republican who is sympathetic to liberal education reform, Huckabee will only move us further along. That's the subject of my next post.

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Get Behind Huckabee Fast

Posted by Anonymous

Folks, I cannot for the life of me understand why believers would bypass Huckabee for Ron Paul. Ron Paul has a terribly angry spirit. He will never be elected. he says he is pro-life but when asked for specifics he gets wishy washy. Huckabee talks about life even when not asked. If we don't get behind Hucakbee we will get Hillary, Rudy, or Romney.

Ronny Cooksey
Oregon

MIKE HUCKABEE�fS
HOMESCHOOL RECORD
It is a common accusation (originating from Ron Paul's official website) that Governor Huckabee
had an anti-homeschool record in Arkansas. This is patently untrue.
Besides being the first Governor to appoint a homeschooler to the State Board of Education, here
is Mike Huckabee's record on homeschooling from the HSLDA�fs Court Report.
In 1996, as Lieutenant Governor, Mike Huckabee intervened on behalf of homeschoolers:
Intervention by Lieutenant Governor Mike Huckabee on behalf of home schoolers who
missed the state fee deadline for standardized achievement tests resulted in the families
being given another opportunity to pay and have their children tested at a later date.
Both families had been notified by Yvette Dillingham, Home Schools Program Support
Manager for the Arkansas Department of Education, that state law prohibited them from
participating in the standardized testing program because of their failure to pay for the
state's tests by the deadline. In addition, Ms. Dillingham informed the parents that since
their children would not be able to satisfy the testing requirement, the families would be
prohibited from home schooling during the 1996-97 school year.
Having previously heard of the lieutenant governor's interest in other non-member
home schoolers facing this same problem, Mr. Black telephoned Tom Holiman, Executive
Director of the Arkansas Christian Home Education Association (ACHEA), to discuss the
position held by the Department of Education. In a two-pronged strategy, Mr. Holiman
contacted the lieutenant governor's office on behalf of the HSLDA families, while Mr.
Black faxed a letter to Mrs. Dillingham setting forth HSLDA's interpretation of state law. A
copy of Mr. Black's letter was also faxed to the lieutenant governor's office.
Within 24 hours of being contacted by [HSLDA attorneys], Lieutenant Governor
Huckabee sent a letter to Gene Wilhoit, Director of the Department of Education, seeking
administrative relief for those parents who had inadvertently missed the deadline for
payment of the test expense. Lieutenant Governor Huckabee recommended that these
parents be permitted to make late payment, so their children could be tested at a makeup
test session for families in this predicament. In his letter of April 19, 1996, to Mr.
Wilhoit, Lieutenant Governor Huckabee said:
"I understand that rules and deadlines are necessary to the efficient functioning of any
administrative body. But failure to send payment shouldn't be seen as irresponsibility on
the part of the parents. These parents often go 'beyond the call of duty' by devoting a
major portion of their lives toward the education of their children. These same parents
would not intentionally or haphazardly disregard the administrative procedures that
enable them to home-school their children in the first place."
On Monday, April 22, 1996, three days after receiving the Lieutenant Governor's letter,
the Department of Education agreed to permit late payment of the test expense and
scheduled a special make-up testing date for these families. The home schooling families
of Arkansas owe Lieutenant Governor Huckabee a debt of gratitude for his intervention
on their behalf in successfully appealing to the Department of Education to change its
position.
http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V12N3/V12N3AR.asp
In 1997, Governor Mike Huckabee strongly supported and signed a bill overturning restrictive
homeschooling laws:
With the enthusiastic support and assistance of Governor Mike Huckabee, the General
Assembly enacted House Bill 1157 as Act 400 of 1997, revolutionizing the law governing
home schools in Arkansas. Arkansas home school families' interests were tremendously
advanced through the passage of H.B. 1157. With this legislation, Arkansas was
transformed from one of the most restrictive states in the nation into one of the most
favorable.
http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/V13N3/V13N3AR.asp
So on what basis does Mr. Fisk attack Governor Huckabee�fs record? Well, he�fll tell you it�fs based
on HB 1724 in 1999, which did increase restrictions on homeschool families, was signed by
Huckabee, and was opposed by the HSLDA. But here�fs the context he leaves out:
[HB 1724 was] sponsored by Representative Jim Magnus (R-55), a home schooling
father from Little Rock... The public school lobby had been working overtime to convince
the Arkansas legislature that the home school law was too permissive. Their efforts paid
off and home schoolers were informed by unfriendly legislators that the home school law
was going to be changed. In an effort to forestall unbearably hostile and restrictive
legislation, the home school leaders decided to introduce their own bill.
[�c]
What Did the Previous Law Require?
Originally enacted in 1985 under then-Governor Bill Clinton, Arkansas�f home school law
recognized the right of parents to teach their children at home, but imposed considerable
restrictions, especially for special education. In 1997, due largely to the efforts of
Governor Mike Huckabee, Arkansas revised the law creating a much more favorable
environment for home educators.
http://www.hslda.org/courtreport/v15n3/V15N3AR.asp
The other bill, HB 2037, put forth by Democrat Representative Jerry Allison, is described by this
article in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on March 9, 1999:
House Bill 2037 requires that home-schooling parents:
Hold classes at least 180 days a year.
Upgrade the curriculum each year based on state recommendations.
Provide class plans and daily records of student activity.
Notify the local school superintendent 14 days before parents begin each school
semester.
Under Allison�fs bill, parents would need at least a high school diploma before they can
home school. Opponents said that requirement would eliminate second-generation
home-schoolers from teaching.
In a recent Jonesboro Sun article about his bill, Allison was quoted as saying he wanted
to be sure that children weren�ft being pulled from public schools to be home schooled just
because �gparents are too lazy to take them there.�h
�gMany of you mothers here were insulted by the suggestion that you are too lazy to take
your kids to school,�h Lynn Childers, president of Christian Home Educators of Arkansas,
told the group Monday. �gI am offended.�h
Childers urged the crowd, mostly home-schooling mothers and their children, to call
Allison and ask him to withdraw his proposal.
�gI�fm trying to protect the children,�h Allison said when reached at the state Capitol on
Monday afternoon. �gWe�fve got to have some accountability. Those children [who
attended Monday�fs press conference] should have been in school.�h
Randy Sharp, executive director of the American Family Association of Craighead
County, said Allison fought a bill two years ago that lifted restrictions on home-schoolers.
Sharp said he suspected Allison�fs bill is a vendetta against home-schoolers who opposed
Allison in 1997.
Sharp said home-schooling enrollment increased from 6,000 to 9,000 children in the past
two years since restrictions were lifted. Children who were home schooled also scored
higher on the Scholastic Assessment Tests and the ACT than their counterparts in public
schools, he said.
�gThis shows something is right about home schooling,�h Sharp said. �gMr. Allison seems to
be the only one who doesn�ft understand that.�h
Allison said Monday he had no intention of withdrawing his bill.
�gThey can kiss my foot,�h he said.
The bill that Huckabee ultimately signed in 1999, for which he has been attacked by Ron Paul
supporters, was a bill put forth by a homeschooling father and supported by homeschool groups
in Arkansas�as the HSLDA report explained�and was a defensive measure to prevent Rep.
Allison�fs bill from returning homeschooling regulations to pre-1997 days.
Again, from the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette on March 12, 1999:
The House Education Committee picked the less stringent of two bills to tighten home
schooling rules Thursday, bringing applause from 250 home school parents and children
at the meeting.
The committee recommended House Bill 1724 by Rep. Jim Magnus, R-Little Rock.
According to the Education Alliance, Arkansas�fs statewide homeschool advocacy group, in 2006:
For years, a small handful of lawmakers have wanted to enact more regulation on home
schoolers. Mike Huckabee held many of those lawmakers at bay by simply informing
them that he would be displeased if they did anything to harm his home school friends. I
do not expect Mike Beebe to stand up for home schoolers the way Mike Huckabee did.
http://sbees.blogspot.com/2006/11/arkansas-comparing-homeschooland.
html#c116398584657055977
From all accounts�from the HSLDA and to Arkansas homeschoolers�it is obvious that laws in
Arkansas towards homeschoolers are considerably better than they would have been if it were

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Dec. 19, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by pianosteve

Joe, I responded to you on the previous thread with regard to the document you want us to read. I read it, and I don't see your point. I'm sorry. Go read my further response to you in the comment thread of Part 1 of this series, if you haven't already.

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Dec. 24, 2007 - Huckabee

Posted by Anonymous

This is great analysis -- it would be good to see the same work for any comparative canidate -- as a member of HSLDA, I do recall them saying upfront that it was a risky move to endorse some one so early -- also, we members are not mindless -- as with all endorsements it just tells you their line of thinking -- we can google too! and just by home schooling have proven that we can think for ourselves -- it is a shame that banners and such are inclusive of the whole community -- but it seems to me that is the very nature of political advertising and so we are not immune -- I too have to wonder (and pray) for whom are we to vote, the lesser of two evils??? Obviously, there is no perfect canidate, yet if we don't vote then the proverbial they have won -- religion will have been removed from politics and by our own initiative

I apologize right now for the spelling, I'm horrible at it and too lazy today to stop and look things up -- as it is unbeliveable that I have enough time to myself to compose this at all!!!

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Jan. 2, 2008 - Ron Paul has an 'terribly angry spirit?'

Posted by Wade0520

Ronny Cooksey posted this comment a couple weeks back that I believed deserved a response:

"Folks, I cannot for the life of me understand why believers would bypass Huckabee for Ron Paul. Ron Paul has a terribly angry spirit. He will never be elected. he says he is pro-life but when asked for specifics he gets wishy washy. Huckabee talks about life even when not asked. If we don't get behind Hucakbee we will get Hillary, Rudy, or Romney."

"He has a terribly angry spirit."
I guess I need to know what that means. If it means 'serious, not trying to convince people to vote for him by 'tickling their ears,' but stating what he believes is the truth according to the Constitution (not by how he feels), and answering questions rather than making jokes,' then you're right.

But I would choose a different word than 'angry.' He's 'serious' about his concern about what is happening to the country and its lack of following the Constitution.

After watching and listening to dozens of Dr. Paul's speeches, one thing is clear - he is serious about what he is sharing. He doesn't stop and smile when people interupt him for applause - he just stops until he can speak again. He doesn't change his message to fit who he's talking to - his message is consistent to everyone. Whether he is cheered or booed, he remains unaffected either way - because he is a man of conviction.

"He's unelectable."
Since no votes have been cast yet, I don't know how anyone would know this. He's been elected to 10 terms in his district in Texas as a Republican, so he is 'electable.' He raised $19.5 million in the 4th quarter of 2007, much more than any other Republican candidate... which would indicate there are a few people who support him.

And unlike most of the Republicans (Huckabee included), whose records or messages are similiar in many ways to the Democrats, my opinion is that Dr. Paul's message and track record makes him the only Republican who can defeat the Democrats.

Huckabee's record that's similar to Democrats? Tax increases while governor, rights for illegals, pro-national ID card, disregard for personal rights
(believes the Fed Govt has the right to ban smoking), believes in doing good works (those he believes in) through governement (using your tax money).

And he has become much more pro-public school than he appears to have been earlier in his governorship. The New Hampshire NEA has actually endorsed his candidacy.

All of these are what would typically be called 'liberal' positions.

"When asked about being prolife, Paul gets wishy-washy."
His record says otherwise. As a baby doctor who has delivered over 4,000 babies, he has never once seen the need to perform an abortion.

He also understands that Congress has the ability to overrule decisions of the Supreme Court, and has more than once offered up a bill that would essentially void Roe vs. Wade, establish that the Fed Govt believes life begins at conception, removing all abortion funding now provided by the Fed Govt.

Short of an Constitutional amendment (which will take years if it ever happens at all), Paul's bill would return the decision of abortion to the states.

And from what I've heard, 40% of the states would restrict abortion - something they're not allowed to do now because they have to follow Federal law - which is allowing abortion at any time during pregnancy.

You've probably never heard of this bill before - that's because so-called pro-life Congressmen and Presidents have never gotten behind it.

And here's how he began his weekly column to constituents in April 2001:
"As a pro-life obstetrician-gynecologist, I am steadfastly opposed to abortion. I strongly believe that a fetus is a human life, and that a fetus deserves the same legal protections afforded to all Americans. I also believe that the Roe v. Wade decision will prove to be the most flawed Supreme Court ruling of the 20th century. There is no real or imagined "right to abortion" in the Constitution under any serious interpretation of that document. The Supreme Court simply created a nonexistent constitutional right out of thin air to serve the political agenda of the justices."
(complete column at http://ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=198)

None of this sounds 'wishy-washy' to me.

"Paul never talks about it - Huckabee does even when not asked."
I believe Huckabee is sincere when he says he's pro-life. But he is the same as the other Republicans who say they're pro-life - their plan is always to nominate conservative judges and/or wait for people's hearts to be changed.

In the meantime, millions of babies are being killed. Paul's bill would put an end to many of those deaths very quickly.

All anyone has to do to find out what Dr. Paul's positions really are is to check out his writings:
www.ronpaullibrary.org Just under the heading of 'Abortion and Stem Cell Research,' there are 21 different articles written by Dr. Paul.

Other good sources:
www.ronpaul2008.com (official campaign site)
www.ronpaulaudio.com (includes speech to National Right To Life group earlier this year)
www.lewrockwell.com

And here is his platform regarding homeschooling:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/home-schooling/

His longtime record shows that he believes:
1. Parents should control their child's education
2. Dept of Education should be eliminated (returning education back to the states and local community)
3. As long as there's a Fed Income Tax (which Paul opposes), homeschoolers should receive a tax rebate for expenses incurred.

Just wanted to correct what I believe were uninformed comments. Thanks...

Wade

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