Since this is an up kind of day, it might be a good time to record some of the more disturbing conversations I've had with Jamoke.

We had had a very hard few days with Jamoke.  And our insides were pretty torn up by all that we were learning...and not accepting very well. So I was taking Jamoke's to stay at Nana's house for 24 hours to give us all a breather. Besides, my husband was going away on a Scouting trip with Ouseman, and Jamoke is really, really awful when Tim is out of town.

As we drove over to Nana's, just the two of us, I asked Jamoke if it made him sad when he was mean to someone and they started crying or yelling for him to stop.

"Not really," he said.

"Well, how do you feel when Ouseman starts crying or Matthew starts yelling when you are being mean to them?" I asked.

"Will you be mad at me?" he asked.

"Never. When we talk like this, I want to hear what you really think and I would never ever be mad at what you say, as long as it really is what you think."

"I kind of like it," he said.

"What do you mean? You kind of like what?" I asked.

"I kind of like it when they start crying and get all mad. It's kind of fun. But I do stop sometimes when they ask me to."

"What about when you don't stop. Like when Ouseman is crying and begging you to stop and you laugh at him and keep being mean to him? Or when Matthew is angry to almost crying and so frustrated that he starts shaking?  How do you feel when they want you to stop but you don't?"

"Well," he said, "those times it is so much fun I just don't want it to stop."

"For most people, that kind of thing makes them feel sad. Do you feel sad even a little bit" I asked.

"Yes," he said. "I feel sad when they tell on me and you and Dad make me stop. No. I don't feel sad. It makes me kind of mad," he said.

"Why does it make you mad? What makes you mad? That they told? Or that we make you stop?" I asked.

"Both," he said.

The conversation ended there. I didn't have the stomach to continue.