Under His Construction

• Aug. 26, 2007 - Love and Logic: Is it Biblical?

I am sure most of you have heard of this somewhat new approach to parenting and maybe some of you have implemented it into your household. For those of you who have not heard of this, it is a method of disciplining your child to make better choices based on looking logically at the consequences. The parent is to let the child find out for themselves why a choice is wrong by allowing them to go through the natural consequences of their choices. I personally have not read any of the books based on this approach pioneered by Foster Cline and Jim Fay but I have read up enough on it to be concerned. My main concern is that I see this method being heavily endorsed within the Christian community. Just a quick peruse on the internet will yield classes galore being offered by churches across the US. So what's wrong with teaching our children to seek to make better choices? Isn't this what God wants us to teach our children? To govern themselves by making wise choices?

 

Well, yes - these things are good things and definitely an important goal in parenting. The problem lies within how this is taught. and why.  According to this method children will learn how to make choices based on subjective external circumstances rather than objective truth. The lines between right and wrong will become hazy as children use the circumstances of their lives to guide future decision making. God has given us His Word to use to measure all our choices by. This is the standard we are to use in instructing our children in their decision making. 

 

The second problem I find with this approach is that we are not teaching our children that obedience is of utmost impotance. The Bible tells us that foolishness is bound up in our children's hearts thus they will make foolish decisions based on their own foolish whims. The parents job is to train them in the way they should go showing them how to govern themselves through obedience. Heart is the key to this as they learn to be led by the Spirit by obeying God. God has directed them to obey their parents and so obeying mommy and daddy is obedience to God. When we are not setting a standard in which they are to obey then they are learning to be led by their own foolishness  based on their own understanding. This is contrary to blindly following and obeying God. He may ask us to do something that seems foolish and/or illogical (think Joshua) and God wants our obedience no matter what the consequences may be.

 

Lastly, motives come from the heart. Every decision we make proceeds forth from what is in our hearts. Teaching our children to make future decisions based on the consequences from past decisions alone will only encourage them to look at situations selfishly seeking what is good for themselves. When the Word of God is placed at the heart of why we do what we do then the decisions will flow from love of God and love of others. These are the two greatest commandments God has given us to use in the governing of ourselves (decision making). This is not to say that we should not review the consequences of our actions and learn from them, but only in light of what Scripture says about our actions because doing what is right will always be right no matter what consequences came. In fact, doing what is right often causes others to be upset and sometimes angry at us.

 

So in light of all this we can clearly see that God has given us everything we need to train our children in the way they should go and so instead of seeking out this world's advice and/or philosophies on parenting, we need go no further than His Word to find wisdom on how to instruct our precious little ones.

 

"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness"  2 Tim. 3:16

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• Aug. 26, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Thanks Mandi Lou for doing this search for me! I appreciate the time you took to do it and then to post your findings! I know *I* could have done it and should have... you put it together very simply and it is easy to understand. THANKS a bunch! Love ya lots sil!

Brandi Sue
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• Aug. 26, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Dealing with consequences is external. While I think it is an important aspect of discipline if we never deal with the internal motivations and give our children principles to govern themselves they will not be prepared to live in liberty.
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• Aug. 26, 2007 - Well done, Mandi

Posted by fussypants
I am so happy I have you to do my "heavy thinking!" Well done. I myself have had thoughts along those lines, but could never boil it down so well!
Thank yous & love,
Alli
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• Aug. 28, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by garringer9
I enjoyed reading your post. Your points are very well thought through. It is thought provoking!
I am not sure that I would throw the consequential learning out completely though, especially as they get older. I think there are so many aspects to our developing our relationship with God that there are multiple ways that we learn our disciplines and teach them to our children. I think we also need to take into account the bend of our child(ren) What we may do for one we may not do for another in a similiar situation.
Have beautiful and blessed day! Thank you for giving me thoughts to think on today. Lori
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• Aug. 28, 2007 - Wow!

Posted by onecrazymom
What a response so far! I have gotten out of the habit of responding here to comments - I do plan on trying to be better - but so many of you I know so I can go to your blog or email you - anyways I thought a few of these comments needed a response here. ( :

Brandi Sue - how are you? So glad you came to visit me here and left a comment to boot! What a blessing to have you share my sweet SIL! ( :

Alli - thanks for your sweet comments as well - this program and I crossed paths about four years ago - so I guess I have had some time to do some "heavy thinking"! ( : It's about time I finally figured out what was wrong with it! ( :

Anonymous - yes!!! - Truth is what brings liberty! ( : Thanks for adding!

Lori - Thanks so much for sharing - I couldn't agree more - consequences are a huge part of child training - God shares all throughout Scripture the many different consequences that come from our actions - but the Bible needs to be the absolute standard for teaching what is right and wrong - consequences will always be subjective - example - One person can get away with speeding for forty years another can get a ticket the first time they try it. This provides no absolute standard to measure our actions against.
I agree also that how we present these truths to our kids should be individualized to their own unique learning style - but what is taught needs to always be objective - based on God's truth. ( :
Thank you all for your thoughts and kind words - so happy to hear from you! ( :
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• Aug. 29, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Mandi,
Anonymous is me. I am so used to signing in on blogger that I forget to add my name at the end here. Whoops!
Renae
http:reflective.homeschooljournal.net
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• Aug. 29, 2007 - Amen!

Posted by smmrtym70
Great post Mandi. I have not heard of this style of parenting before. Liberty is the ability to do what is right. And yes, doing what is right does not always make others happy with us so "consequences" are not always good even when we walk in liberty. Looking at consequences to gage what is right is in conflict to the Word of God.

Keep us thinking friend!
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• Aug. 30, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by garringer9
Mandi, Thanks for replying to my comment...you actually clarified some things I was not clear about! When you get a chance swing by my blog. I have something for you!
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• Aug. 30, 2007 - WEll spoken again.

Posted by REInvestor
You have wisdom beyond your years my friend. I know it comes from the SCripture, but still others read it and don't come away with this wisdom. I have not heard of this parenting approach but I think your concerns are on target. Keep on thinking!!!
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• Aug. 31, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by garringer9
You need a chat box! That way we can 'chat' :0)
PLEASE keep me updated about the job thing. That would be so very fun to get to know you in person! If you are ever up this way- or want to come up this way let me know. Lori
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• Aug. 31, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by servingtheKingofkings
Great post! I agree...God's Word should be our ultimate guide to parenting/living. We need to also pray for wisdom and pray for our children continually.

By the way, I'm having a giveaway on my blog. The deadline is tomorrow (Friday). Please visit http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/servingtheKingofkings/ for details.
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• Sep. 5, 2007 - packaged parenting

Posted by Jennifer in OR
I'm always leery of what I call packaged parenting - any "system" that someone is trying to sell in books or parenting "curriculum." I'm sure the Love & Logic system has some good to it, but we don't need a System, we need Jesus!

love, diaryof1.com
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• Sep. 5, 2007 - Wow- again

Posted by onecrazymom
Thank you all for your comments - I love to see so many other parents seeking God's Word as their instruction book for parenting as well as all areas of life! Who better than the author of life to instruct us in it eh?!

Hugs to you all my dear friends!
Mandi
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• Apr. 24, 2008 - Shocked!

Posted by Anonymous
I am shocked at how many people think you've done your research when you readily admit you haven't even read the books! After that comment, everything else you might have to say is void to me.
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• Jul. 24, 2008 - Untitled Comment

Posted by onecrazymom
Anonymous commenter-
While I understand your problems with me criticizing the program without having read the book - it is important that you understand that I am not attacking the ins and outs of the program but the basic premise that the program is based on. I have been around the program and seen it in use, as well as talked with a friend that went to the teacher training seminar. Please understand that I am not just reading the back of the book and making assumptions - although that would tell me a lot about the basic premise of the program in and of itself - probably even enough to have written this review on alone since, again, that is what my criticism is based on.
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• Oct. 3, 2008 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
I don't know you but found your blog through a google search. I have been researching this method of parenting and enjoy your insight.
I wholeheartedly agree with you but also feel there is some merit to the Love and Logic idea. Especially for older kids. God created his rules for a reason. When we disobey those rules we have consequences. I think we can use the Love and Logic to a certain degree if we make sure our children know that the negative consequences they may have are a result of their sin/disobedience and that the rules they have from us and from God are because we love them.
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