Under the Sky

Aug. 24, 2006

Why I don't like Saxon

A commenter from my last post asked why I don't like Saxon so here are my answers. Thanks for asking! This was originally written in response to a question that was asked on a Yahoo Group I am on that asked why Cathy Duffy did not recommend early Saxon.


I can tell you why I think she does not list it and instead lists MathUSee. Math is a language that must be learned in the same way reading is. Saxon does not do this. It is not a mastery program, but is a rote memory, spiral program that does not offer true understanding of the language of math. Saxon was written for public schools that do not slow their teaching for those students who are not getting it. Your children will not learn the “why” of math, and there certainly is a “why” to it. Saxon encourages you to push on when your child does not understand a concept with the assumption that they will “get it” when they see it enough. This is the philosophy behind all Saxon products. This will work ONLY if your child is instinctively very math-oriented in their brain from the get-go. Most of us do not have that luxury. Even if you think your child does think this way, it is my humble opinion that this is no way to teach young concrete-oriented children math. They must see it, feel it, and understand it. The only program I have ever seen that does all these things is MathUSee.

 

In my opinion, MUS will give you everything that Saxon will not. It is a complete mastery program in that you do not move on until your child(ren) understand it and can then explain it to you when called to do so. It is concrete, explicit, interesting, and understandable to those who really have struggled in this area. As a homeschooling mom for seven years I have seen many math programs (and so, unfortunately, has my eldest) and the only one that ever communicated true understanding of math concepts has been MUS. I will also go so far as to say that the majority of families that I have had contact with that are struggling in elementary math are using Saxon. My oldest was able to go all the way through Saxon 65 without truly understanding anything she did! What kind of teaching is that? Now we are working our way back through some of the concepts that she was “taught” by Saxon via MUS and she is thriving! She finally understands math and it is no longer a struggle. My two younger ones understand all their concepts too--math is no longer a dreaded subject.

 

So I actually feel that early Saxon can be a big negative and I could not recommend it in good conscience.


Probably more than you really asked for, huh? I do appreciate the question though. Oh, and for those of you wondering, no, I don't work for MUS! :+)

 

Warmly,

Kate

 


• Post A Comment! • Send to a Friend!

Comments

Aug. 24, 2006 - Kate, thank you for your honesty

Posted by Dana
I am sincerly grateful. I have wondered about Cathy Duffy myself. I have used Saxon for 2 years and it isn't sitting well.
I knew you were using MUS but this honest post confirmed my "gut feelings"
Because of my own lack of education on the why's and how's of math, I am feeling inadequate using Saxon. Thank you!
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - Okay, you've got me curious...

Posted by Mamma1420
What do you think about Horizons? We're using it and I like it so far but I have a few reservations about it. My daughter is doing well so I'm leaving it alone until I see further results. BUT! I'm still curious about your thoughts!

: )
Jessica
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - Ladies:

Posted by UndertheSky
Thanks for your comments! I appreciate you both. :+)

Jessica, I used Horizons early on and found it to overwhelm my small person. It does not really teach the "why" behind math either, although I think it is a better program than Saxon. At least Horizons understands the importance of place value. That being said, the fact that it does not teach the real "why" behind math will still, in my opinion, limit a child. I have heard good things about Right Start, but have never seen it up-close so I have no personal opinion. I am still very much recommending MUS because I have seen the results and they are pretty outstanding.

Warmly,
Kate
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - Saxon etc.

Posted by Anonymous
I really like Saxon from 54 and up. Until then, though, I use Modern Curriculum Press.

Of course not all things work for all people, just my two cents.

The early Saxon did not appeal to my lazy nature! It looked like I was going to have to sit there and teach forever and I preferred the "I explain it, now you do it" model.

From Saxon 54 and on, I just read the intro aloud and then have them do the lesson. I thought each lesson taught the math behind the exercises well, but then again, I have nothing to compare it to as it's all I've used. I've just been so happy with the math progress around here that I haven't looked for anything else.
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - saxon

Posted by Copperswife
As always, different programs work well in different families. However, I agree with everything that's been said here about the early Saxon - too burdensome, not enough why for the concepts, etc. I want to put in my two cents worth about the later grade Saxon (54 and up) as well. My older girls STRUGGLED with it. I now know they struggled needlessly. There are many far better math programs out there for the upper grades. That said, I do know families that thrive on their Saxon math. If it ain't broke for your family, don't fix it!
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - Thanks Kate

Posted by Anonymous
I appreciate the time you took to answer my question. I didn't expect that. We started with Saxon 54 and it seems to be working well for my son, who does have a mathematical mind by the way. I have heard other good reviews of MUS. I am having a friend who is a "wiz" evaluate my son. It may be that after that we switch programs if she thinks he isn't up to par.
Thanks so much,
Carrie J
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - Thanks Kate

Posted by Anonymous
I appreciate the time you took to answer my question. I didn't expect that. We started with Saxon 54 and it seems to be working well for my son, who does have a mathematical mind by the way. I have heard other good reviews of MUS. I am having a friend who is a "wiz" evaluate my son. It may be that after that we switch programs if she thinks he isn't up to par.
Thanks so much,
Carrie J
• Permanent Link

Aug. 24, 2006 - We love Saxon!

Posted by GogoMama
Following the recommendations of the Bluedorns, we have done very little formal math before 5th or 6th grade. Instead, we've done mental math and used math in practical situations. We've started each of the kids in 6/5 when they're ready for it (10-12, depending upon the child). 3 of the 4 of them have done wonderfully with it! The fourth doesn't like math of any kind, but does okay with it as long as her hand is held :-). We fooled around with a few of the others before settling on Saxon. I love that it builds on the previous lessons and explains so thoroughly.

The great thing about homeschooling is that we can each use what works best for our own children.
• Permanent Link

Aug. 25, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Interesting thoughts. We used Saxon for a year and didn't like it . . . I thought it was a "fit" issue--we just "fit" better in Singapore.
But it's true that one of the reasons I like Singapore is that he's *thinking* about math, not just learning the formula.

Sarah
www.xanga.com/scsours
• Permanent Link

Aug. 25, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Just a note to say that I am HERE, like ALWAYS, reading your BLOG, which I read DAILY, so that you would know that I am HERE reading your BLOG like ALWAYS which I do DAILY so that there would be no confusion. Because I'm here. Reading your blog. Daily. Like Always. And I just wanted you to know that.

:)

~Jo's Boys

http://josboys.typepad.com
• Permanent Link

Aug. 25, 2006 - Makin me Think

Posted by hugabunchmom
Wow, you make me reconsider Saxon. Since we use the Robinson curriculum I picked up Saxon because it is called for within Robinson. BUT, I will now rethink that decision as my oldest is still struggling through math. She was public schooled through 6th grade with straight As, and yet, once home we found that she didn't actually grasp an awful lot of things. She has been the perfect example of "teaching to the test" without actually learning. We have used A/O, Spectrum, and now this year it is Saxon, we've only been at it for a week, but she is already struggling daily to complete her math work. I suppose I will be browsing the MUS site this evening! Thanks for the tip!!
• Permanent Link

Sep. 3, 2006 - We booted Saxon, too

Posted by LisaLW
I started dd in Saxon's kindergarten program, and we both enjoyed it. I skipped parts that were repetitious, but overall, we had a great year, and she loved math. First grade was a different story once we started math computation. It took a while for me to figure out what wasn't working for us, but one day it finally clicked. A lesson would present a math concept, example: when you add 2 to an odd number, you get the next odd number. Now, here's a worksheet with 20 problems! I tried using different types of manipulatives, but I ended up with a frustrated and angry little girl who now "hated" math.

We spent the second half of first grade focusing on time and money and set Saxon aside. We're now four weeks into Singapore Math, but we had to start at Level 1 because she never mastered many first grade skills. At least her attitude is better, though.

Lisa
• Permanent Link

Aug. 25, 2007 - Saxon Math

Posted by Tracy
This is my first time visiting your blog and it is wonderful...full of good info.

I just had to comment and say that we use Saxon and have been very happy with it. My mind is not at all a "math" mind, and I have sure learned a lot! Now, I have only used level 3 and up, but have the K for my 4 year old (because it looks more like pre-k) and it looks fun, and hands-on. My older two 5th and 7th have done great with it and I think it does a lot of what you said it didn't do (like teach the "why" and not just the "how" to get the answer). Also, I wouldn't have them move on if they weren't getting something...no matter what I was using....isn't that is the beauty of homeschooling?

I will be visiting you again.

http://bizzyhousemommy.blogspot.com
• Permanent Link

About Me

I love to read, I love my husband and children, I love my Savior. I enjoy dark roast coffee with cream and sugar, Earl Grey tea with scones and clotted cream, long walks in forested areas and Redwood trees. I have a mad passion for history, strong sound Reformed theology, and good creation science materials. I have strong opinions, but respect those of others. I am grateful for my life, for every breath, for each day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice in His mercy.

Links

• Classical Christian Homeschooling
• The Old Schoolhouse Magazine
• OPC
• J.W. Waterhouse Site
• Home
• View my profile
• Archives
• Email Me
• My Blog's RSS

Ten things we wish we believed about homeschooling when we first started.


Numbers 10 & 9
Numbers 8 & 7
Numbers 6 & 5
Numbers 4 & 3
Numbers 2 & 1



Favorite Resources


ESV Reformation Study Bible


Victorian Books and Movies


Training Hearts, Teaching Minds


Lamp and Quill Devotionals


Mystery of History


Wonderful History Timelines and Figures (Homeschool in the Woods!)


Salem Ridge Press (Wonderful Christian historical fiction!)


Christine Miller's Histories (Nothing New Press)


Story Starters


Phonics Pathways


Beautifully Made (For your changing daughter.)


Other Purity and Puberty Resources


Ligonier Ministries


Great Creation Resources


Math U See (The best math curriculum-ever!)


Why I don't use Saxon.


Our History Study Resources


Mystery of History (Of course!)


History Timelines and Figures


The Ides of April


Beyond the Desert Gate


Adara


For the Temple, Softcover


Martyr of the Catacombs: A Tale of Ancient Rome


Ben Hur - Focus on the Family Radio Theatre audiodrama on CD

Past Family Favorites


The Sign Above the Door


Hittite Warrior


Victory on the Walls: A Story of Nehemiah


The Stranger at Home


The List


Across Five Aprils


For the Temple


The Daisy Chain


Daughters of Destiny


The Hidden Treasure of Glaston


The Basket of Flowers


The Tales of the Kingdom Series


Alone yet Not Alone: The Story of Barbara and Regina Leininger


Five Children and It


The Enchanted Castle


Beautiful Girlhood


A Father's Promise


Gods Smuggler


Red Scarf Girl


The Hiding Place


True Stories of the Blitz


Favorite Folks

A Circle of Quiet
Jeneralities
Quiet Life
Jo's Boys
The Wintons
Apollos Academy
Anne of Green Curtains
Crib Chick
A Mother's Musings
Buried Treasure
The Upward Call
Copper's Wife
Rambling Rose
frogiggie89
karenciavo
Cornflower
Mariel
DianaWaring
MaggieHogan
redmom
gottsegnet
Melkhi
esperanzavallero
TC
AFJen88
Moms4Psalms
Momof5littlewomen
PreschoolersandPeace
deedeeuk
hugabunchmom
CTdittmar
Dana
hrlabonte
barbieheart

andijeane
MrsIncredible
homesweethomeschooler
Darrensgirl
ReviewsbyHeidi
ChristineRead
HisPoiema