Babymakers

This blog is written
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Please Comment!

Posted in Our Life
I am a member of Freecycle. It is a neat group that people join in the area they live in. If you have something you can post it and if somebody else wants it they can come get it for free! There is never any selling or trading. Only free.
Well, I post stuff and on the bottom of my email is a signature that looks like this:

Do you know if you have been saved from your sin? If you don't then ask me how!
 
 
Check out my eBay store at http://stores.ebay.com/E-BaBee-Makers

Well, it turns out that I have offended somebody and now the moderators don't know what to do which is understandable. They are in a tight spot. Here is the offended person's opinion:

She contends that if religious tags are allowed, that she and other members of other religions should be allowed to post similar tags. For example, if we allow tags like "Christ is the way", then she contends that others should be allowed to include tags like "Judaism spawned Christianity" or "Magick Happens" or "My Goddess gave birth to your God". If gospel books and Bibles are posted, she believes that other members should be allowed to post offers or requests for Tarot cards, pentagrams, athames, or yarmulkas. She may also include pointedly non-Christian links in the email text if she sees Christian links in other messages. If tags that offer advice about sin and redemption are allowed, she will fee free to post tags that read "Ask me how to become a Witch" or "Torah meetings every Saturday night, come join us."

Here are the freecycle rules:

Inappropriate Posts:

... you will also need to watch for illegal items or items which are restricted due to age, including alcohol, weapons, tobacco, and "adult" materials. You'll also want to look for posts that are antagonistic or inflammatory to other members, or those that may start a debate such as religious or political statements. Delete those posts, give a STERN warning to the poster, and put them on moderation.


This is the opinion of one of the group moderators:

I take that to refer to messages with a strictly religious content and which do not contain an offer or request which would comply with the purpose of Freecycle. However, the intent is to avoid controversy which might affect the smooth operation of Freecycle. Message tags could also start (and evidently have) a controversy.

My opinion is this:

Here is a story that I am going to tell to help express my opinion- Joe gets lots of magazines at his house. After he has a stack of Ranger Rick he posts them for free on freecycle. Then when he gets another stack of Time Magazine he gives them away. He does this all the time with a variety of magazines and nobody seems bothered (or at least they don't complain to him about it). Then one day Suzie sees his posts and wonders why she can't post all the Playboy and Penthouse magazines that they get at her house. After all many people read them and only the people that want them will respond. So she tells the moderator she is upset and is nice enough about it. Now what does the moderator do? Most people would say that the dirty magazines should not be allowed.

Now, here is how this compares with this freecycle situation. I am Joe. I am a Christian fulfilling my obligation to God to tell others about Christ and what he has done. Nobody has to respond to the signature if they don't want to. It is not made in an offensive way. It only will promote good things like loving others, not lying, being faithful to your spouse, working hard ect.... when people look into it.
Now the other person in the story would be someone that is into witchcraft. Witchcraft and the Occult have been known to promote things like human and animal sacrifice to the devil and other gods, unhealthy sexual activity, casting spells on people, rebellion and lying ect... Now only the people that want to look into the witchcraft signatures are going to.
I believe that we should not allow things that are going to hurt others. It is not promoting good but evil. This is not a matter of what is fair in my opinion. It is right and wrong.
I also believe that I have a right to put my signature on things according to the constitution.

There are decisions being made about this and the decisions may be one of these things:

1. Allow all message tags
    2. Ban all message tags
    3. Ban just religious message tags
    4. Take a poll of members and go by majority preference


Now what do you think? I would like to know so please comment and send this to your friends and family so they can comment. Keep the comments clean and friendly. Please leave your name. I am hoping to be able to send a link of this to the moderator before they make a decision. Hopefully, we can stop anything bad from happening. So, if we can get a bunch of people to comment it would be great! Above all else don't forget to pray, pray, pray! Who knows what the Lord can do?!





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Comments

Jul. 7, 2006 - Freecycle

Posted by Mark
I agree with your position. To place the use of Christian tags on the same level as pagan tags is foolish. I hope that you are successful in your attempt to get the Freecycle leadership to see this, and that you will continue to share your testimony in this way.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Being a christian, obviously I don't think there is anything wrong with your tag. Even if someone was supporting same sex marriages in there tag, or your example was witchcraft..I wouldn't complain. That is there opinion...it's free speech. It is your choice what you read..the woman can skip your emails, or skip over your tag. She doesn't have to read them.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - whoops!

Posted by Amie
Sorry, that last post was me!
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
I think it would be wise to Ban all message tags on FreeCycle,not that I do not agree with your point of view (I do) but it is true something someone may say might offend another person even though not meaning too.FreeCycle is a place to give items away not messages that do not pertain to FreeCycle.I think it would just be safe to Ban all message tags so no one is getting hurt or left out,so this type of thing is not an issue again in the future.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Anonymous
Being a Christian I see nothing wrong or upsetting with your Tag.I think it is a free world and if you want to post a signature or message tag at the end it should be allowed no matter wether it is supporting Witchcraft,Judism,Christianaty or anything else it is solely your own opinion.If you do not agree with it the other party can just scroll down or ignore it,it is your choice what you want to read.I hope you are successful in proving there is nothing wrong with message tags.Vickie
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Freecycle tags

Posted by
I am a member of my local Freecycle, as well as a Christian. I, as an American Christian, am told constantly that I don't *have* to watch the filthy programs that are offered to me and my family on my public airwaves, don't *have* to listen to the raunchy music offered by the local radio station, don't *have* to participate in "________" if I don't like the sponsers. No one seems to be worried if they offend us! If we don't like it we are supposed to turn away and be responsible to shield ourselves from it (whatever it may be). No one expects the quality of the programs (or whatever else) to be improved because we are offended.

Your local ACLU member that is complaining ought to follow her own suggestions and just ignore your tag. It is your free speech right to tagline your message as you see fit. If they want to allow pagen ones, fine! Anyone so proud to be a pagan, or witch, or fornicator is probably already tagging their messages!

Momma (Frankie in CA)

Edited by Mommaofmany on Jul. 8, 2006 at 10:24 PM
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Aligirl
Hi! What a mess that is! That's the world for you. I totally agree with your position, but on the same hand, I can see how since we have freedom of speech, they should be able to put what they want on their tags (as horrible as they are. It makes my stomach turn thinking about it. ICK!) But, they should also watch that they don't post tags like that my goddess gave birth to your God, because in all honesty, they would be lashing out at christians. It is a sad, sad state that the world is in. What a shame.

Ali
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Jul. 7, 2006 - one more thing....

Posted by Aligirl
I just read your post about the homemade rootbeer. I have been learning about lacto fermenting, and I learned that you can put some whey into your sasparilla drink, and it will ferment it thus adding carbon dioxide. I am anxious to try it out! I have a friend who runs an organic farm outside of town, and she has been teaching be SO much! She makes her own rootbeer like that.

Blessings!
Ali
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Jul. 7, 2006 - message tags

Posted by Anonymous
I personally think they should ban all message tags. Your opinion is just that, your opinion. Freecycle is not the place to air any of the mentioned items. It is for helping people with items that they need or want to give away. Leave it at that and there will not be any problem with this.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Momma

Posted by MommylovesRJ
I SOOOO agree with you! You hit the nail dead on the head. Furthermore, I am so sick and tired of free speech only being applied to those/anything which is deemed offensive to christians. This is nothing more than a political agenda, pure and simple. I was a liberal for years, and have moved to conservatism in probably the last 5 years. I can honestly say in my experience, that secular liberals are very bold in their attempts to silence christians, and anyone who does not wholly embrace that philosophy. I've done it countless times myself, I have to admit, however shamefully. I DO think anyone should be allowed to have sig tags, as long as they are not intentionally inflamatory...such as "my goddess created your god". That type of sig tag is intended to offend, no doubt about it.

If we are to have true free speech, EVERYONE needs to be allowed a voice. EVERYONE!!!

I also have to believe that this person CHOOSES to be offended by your sig tag, because christianity is an easy target. I'd be willing to bet that if you posted something in your sig with a link to a rainbow pride parade, etc, it would have never been an issue. Ever notice that those who are believers, choose to pray if they are offended, and those who are not, manage to only blather on about how offended they are, how dare someone offend them, etc?

Once we start having censorship of the internet, we are all in trouble...especially christians, as we will be the first ones to be censored.

Rant over.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - anonymous

Posted by babymakers
I don't care if you have an opposite opinion but I do care if you don't leave your name. Please be brave enough to leave your name or don't say anything at all. Thanks for your cooperation.
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Jul. 7, 2006 - Freecycle aclu guy

Posted by Sis
Hey there, To make it short n sweet.
The guy/person can CHOOSE to read your "tag" or not to read it.
Does someone have a gun to his head?? I doubt it.
He acts like you put, "read this or face eternal ****ation!!!"
If he don't like it. he could just ignore your posts.
I see lots of things/people I don't like I just ignore or avoid it/them thats all.
Must be too simple for some people to do huh?
Also...if it is an actual link you put on there. He would have to click on
it. MOST "NORMAL" people don't click on links unless they
are truly interested. Maybe this guy got too much time on his hands.
I don't think tags are a problem PERIOD. Even if I don't like what it may say
It is someone else's opinon NOT mine. Unless they asked me for mine. I'm just gonna ignore theirs. Thats all.
I think it's great what you do. .. But do remember. This country is going to
"hades" in a hand basket.
This one END TIMES... saying, I heard went something like this....
people will hate you for my name (Jesus) sake, & the Christian's being persecuted for their belief/faith in God.
Keep The Faith there sis. Don't let this whiny lib. keep ya down.
Talk to ya soon I hope.
Luv,
J.n.S. K.
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Jul. 8, 2006 - Freecycle and Sig Tags

Posted by Denise J.
Since you are hoping to submit these opinions to Freecycle, I will stick to the general policy and not get into the subtle things going on here right now. In my opinion, Freecycle's best course of action would be to ban all sig tags. That is the most fair approach. The sig tag has nothing to do with the product you are offering, so it is unnecessary, from their viewpoint, and it will enable them to run things smoothly without needing to intervene in such disputes.

That said, I am going to make one comment about this specific instance. I am not in the least bit surprised that someone who has chosen to reject God would react in this way. It is the typical liberal reaction to anything that might possibly prick one's conscience. In the first century, Saul kicked against those goads from God by rounding up Jesus' followers and putting them to death in order to silence them. In 21st century America, social liberals kick against those goads by whining to the authorities that they are being offended in order to silence Christians. Not much difference, is there?
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Jul. 8, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by DanielleW
Wow, lots of comments. I tend to agree with you but not sure of the right course of action to take. Is this one of those times that Jesus would have us to be meek and mild? Or is this one of the times that he wants us to make a bold stand and be firm and unbending?

I agree with Denise about how this is probably pricking their consciece and therefore why they are raising a stink.

What have the moderators decided?
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Jul. 11, 2006 - Tag lines

Posted by Jeff
Why is it that everyone is so sensitive? If someone has a different view than you, so what! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. These tags don't harm anyone they are an offer from one person to another to help them if they are seeking help.If they aren't seeking help then they'll move on. To be so offended by some thing so simple shows a complete lack of tolerance for any one elses ideas, and borders on bigotry. When it comes to tag lines, I say if they're offered as a help allow them, but you don't have to offer equal time to some one involved in harmfull activities.
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Jul. 11, 2006 - Freecycle message tags

Posted by A Freecycle(TM) moderator
There's one good thing about allowing all message tags. They identify some people who we REALLY need to pray for! The next time you see an questionable screen name or message tag, please remember to say a quick prayer that the sender will come to know Christ.

GaryP
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Jul. 12, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Kym
I think the only fair ruling for Freecycle would be any tags or no tags. The argument that tags with a Christian message promote only good things while pagan/witchcraft etc promote bad things wouldn't fly. Because while WE know that to be basically true, it is still a matter of opinion in many ways. On those types of group lists, I think it's appropriate to say NO tags or links, because it clutters up the purpose of the list no matter what the message.
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Jul. 13, 2006 - Freecycle

Posted by Luanne
I belong to freecycle also; I find it unfortunate that this group is taking issue with your tag line. However, I hope you recognize that your tag line is not the one line being addressed. Other members have been contacted about their home businesses etc. I do not believe that the moderator is taking issue with your beliefs. On another note...I struggle with the argument of "free speach" and arguments against government intervention with the education of children. I believe that if you wish to reap the benefits of the free culture allowed by our government, you are somewhat obligated to its' standards. This, of course, is just my personal opinion and not meant to offend. I just wish for there to be some understanding by those with a "testimony" that others are not out to offend or attack their ideals.
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Jul. 14, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by babymakers
Actually the only reason I was contacted was because this other person complained about my tag line. The moderator did not have a problem with it and would not have brought it up if someone did not complain. Which Freecycle do you belong to? The areas have different moderators and maybe your moderator in another area has issues with businesses.

Anyhow, I am confused. In the above comment it said -

"I struggle with the argument of "free speach" and arguments against government intervention with the education of children. I believe that if you wish to reap the benefits of the free culture allowed by our government, you are somewhat obligated to its' standards."

What does that mean. I am so lost and need someone to explain what this comment means. Thanks
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Jul. 14, 2006 - Previously posted comment

Posted by Luanne
Certainly, I'd be happy to explain. First off, I do apologize for the typo, as it was just that. I belong to Freecycle of Montgomery county (Philadelphia area). Frequently we see tag lines which advertise individual's businesses in addition to religious tag lines and many other inappropriate things (this was some time ago) . I have only heard issue with the businesses though and am not aware if the complaint was initiated by the moderator or a member. Back to my comment...I apologize for posting in regard to multiple topics in this particular area, I was unsure how to address other posts in your blog and this particular one at the same time. Anyway...one of your other enteries discusses your frustration with the "government" dictating what must be taught by homeschoolers and in this entry you make mention of your constitutional rights. My point being that our constitutional rights and civil liberties are the result of the governmental powers that be. Certainly there is to be caution of governmental controls, however, there should be some understanding that without the government that we have, these rights would not exist. Frustrating yes, but some might say "pay the piper". I of course do not.
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Jul. 14, 2006 - RE: The comment above

Posted by babymakers
Thanks for explaining. I understand what you are trying to say.

If there is a blog you want to comment on go ahead because, even if it an older one, this site will still email me and let me know that someone out there commented and send me the link to read the comment.

Thanks for reading!
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