theroadlesstraveled

Thursday, March 15, 2007

Suffering

A spider web couldn't have more strands than the topic you asked about, siviy!  In response to my last post, you asked:

 

"Do you really believe that God uses illness to punish people? I'm curious, not judging. I've never been able to understand how people could see God as a loving parent but think he'd deliberately afflict people with suffering. I just can't fit this into my own concept of a loving God. Is your biblestudy leader basing this concept on a specific verse? "

 

I wish I had time to do my best.  But I pray this little answer will help some.   Job even answered it already when he said, "Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" Job 2  And, oh boy, what Job went through!   That was God deliberately afflicting him ... but it wasn't as a consequence for Job's sin, I know.   Which seems even harsher to many ... but I'll address that later.  I feel completely unqualified to write about suffering.  I am only writing what I know in my heart from the word of God.  I don't have the scars to prove it. 

 

Here's the short answer: yes.  God can and does use illness as a consequence for sin.  That is not His only purpose in allowing suffering.  But it is one of them.  Let me say that again:  It is not His only purpose in giving pain.

 

Here's the long answer:

 

God truly is a loving parent.   He is the perfect Father that one no one here on earth has, even though there are images of God in the good things our fathers do.  The only problem is, we have to remember what "good" is.  Growing up, "good" wasn't merely going to ice cream with my dad.  Nor was it only him cheering me on at gymnastics competitions.  "Good" was also the big trouble I got in at age 6 after I took my 4 year old little brother on a walk across town to go to the swimming pool ... alone.  The coin of love has two sides.  And it wouldn't be love without both sides.  One of those sides is justice.  I would not have been loved by my father if I had been allowed to get away with misbehavior.  The discipline taught me many things.  If I never actually inflicted consequence of some kind on my three-year old ... he would rule the house, I would be exhausted, all his brothers would detest him for it and he would likely end up in prison someday.  Justice is an important part of love, and it has purpose.  

 

So, yes, I believe that God gives out consequences for sin.  Adam & Eve were kicked out.  Moses didn't enter the Promised Land.  The Israelites wandered for forty years for unbelief.  The earth swallowed part of them for rebellion.  Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead.

 

Here is one of the very best verses to answer if God brings about suffering.  "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives."  Hebrews 12  God's discipline is PROOF of His love!

 

But here is where I should have begun my post, but I didn't.  If I answer that, yes, God actively gives consequences and doesn't merely sit idly by watching the world dole out natural consequences that He set in motion - it really doesn't answer the core question that most people have.  Does He have the right to do that?  And that is what causes me to rest in the decisions God makes for my life.  Knowing that He DOES have the right.  How did I find this out?  I first really began to see it when I read the Bible through for the first time a couple years ago.  "Or does not the potter have a right over the clay,...?"  Romans 9   Understanding that will take me a lifetime.  God's right to choose for His glory - that is His and His alone.  I could never sit here and enumerate it all.  I can only say, go and read and read and read.  You can't miss it who God is.

 

Here is the most important part.  The ultimate consequence doled out is death for sin.  Eternal death.  What kind of a God would do that?  The same God who would then take the same death upon Himself, wholly undeserved out of passionate love.  All suffering on this earth is real, but merely a breath when compared to eternity.  Jesus imposed suffering on himself for sin he didn't even commit.

 

The concept of God's sovereignty in all things is something I had not completely or seriously considered before the last ten years.  Slowly, I have learned more.  I will never say I have arrived at understanding it.  I don't expect to.  But I am on the cusp of believing it.  I think I've actually tentatively crossed over. 

 

Here is someone who explains this really well ... John Piper  He addresses amazing issues that cannot be ignored in the word of God.  I know the truth - and I trust that God will give me the grace to handle the trials I am so gently granted from his hand for whatever reason.

 

brooke

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Friday, March 23, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by www.Xanga.com/GraceatHome
siviy,
You've been "Brooked!" :) This is the kind of amazing response I've come to expect, respect and love from Brooke. The truth told in a frank, but friendly and loving manner.
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Sunday, April 8, 2007 - thanks....

Posted by siviy
I appreciate the thoughtful, detailed response. I can't help but notice, however, that all of your examples are Old Testament. I still can't really reconcile God as punisher with anything that Jesus ever said or did. To the contrary, Jesus spent his time teaching "sinners" not judging them or punishing them.

Perhaps we simply have different views of God, which is also OK. In any case, thank you for taking the time to explain your viewpoint.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 - Untitled Comment

Posted by brooke30
Happy Easter!

Well, I'm not sure if you missed it but I actually primarily quoted from the New Testament, which in Hebrews quotes the Old Testament itself. And the Old Testamant isn't extinct - but, as Jesus said, it is fulfilled. In my opinion, they both go together!

You are right that Jesus didn't come to judge. If you keep reading in the New Testament, you'll find that He intends to come back for the judgment at His second coming. The first time, He came to save. And did He ever!

He is risen! He is risen indeed!
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walking the narrow path hand-in-hand with my Jesus, my firefighter husband and my four little wanna-be firefighters

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