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Posted by Anonymous

I grew up in the Catholic Church, I attended "big" church every Sunday with my parents. I think the best way to put the way I grrew up is religion without relationship. I would have given anything to memorize scripture and know things that kids know now that attend age-segregated classes. It may not have taken me until I was 23 to memorize my first scripture. THanks for sharing Christina!

-Kim

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Posted by Anonymous

Sweetie and I discussed this, post children, been there, fought that, succumbed, regretful. There are pros and cons. If the church body is not friendly about it then how do you deal with toddlers in a long worship service: 40 minute sermons with a five minute attention span. What do you offer your teens so they do not feel deprived of hanging ... Read Morewith the other kids? One idea is having a family class. Small group on Sunday morning that includes entire families, but is open to all ages, all stages. So for example, we could join because we believe in that even thought we have no children in our home. If you don't do Sunday School, do you still do AWANA and mid week youth group stuff? How and why do you draw your boundaries? Another option is to seek out a church with likeminded families. There are a couple of those here, now, but not when we were a young family.

-Debbie

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Posted by challmeyeralways

Debbie, you and I have discussed this, so you know that I am not sure where to go with this... I feel like we should be together, but have not figured out how to make that happen practically yet; but I will post it here so that others may glean from it too. (And I would LOVE more input)(Kim, I do really appreciate yours, and I am not sure that I ... Read Moredisagree, but the fact that I am not sure is what bothers me... I just dont know.) As to attention span, i carry a pad of paper and a deck of cards in my purse at all times... you would be surprised at how often they come in handy. The baby (2) sorts the cards by color, my 4 y/o sorts them by number or shape, and my girls can each play basic games... all of which require no noise. As far as teens, I do not know, I am not there yet, but we do deal with this to an extent with the younger kids. So far, we just try to get together with those kids (and their families) at another time. Mid week dinner, birthday parties, just hang out. This way,we know the kids and the families that they come from. Not so much to "shelter" our kids, but to know what to keep an eye out for. (spending time with boys, keep an eye out for flirting... ect...) As to AWANA, my thinking is that if we are doing scripture memory at home, then AWANA is kind of needless. But I know that several families do not do it ... Read Moreat home. I guess that is why the programs are there. For outreach purposes, not discipleship purposes. As to like minded families, I like the idea, but dont want to leave our church. It may come to that, but I hope not... well, that is if for now.

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Posted by Anonymous

Hey there Christina, You have touched upon a subject I am passionate about. We have done Awanas, Sunday School, Youth Programs, ministries with church... We chose to not do youth programs slowly. Starting with not putting kids in the nursery for health reasons, then Awana because it just became to big and the kids needed to learn other ... Read Morescriptures. Awana focuses largely upon salvation. Then came jr and high school youth groups to make a long story short did more harm than good for the kids growth in the Lord and trusting and obeying their parents. Scripturally it is the parents and grandparents place to teach children to walk in the Lord and the Pastors place to make sure his flock is being discipled and walking in God's truth. I have found over the years watching my own dear children and others families, that family training is best. The church according many studies that Josh Mc Dowell and others quote the church is truly no different than the world in most of their beliefs and in their behavior. Sin is prevalent in the church. When we put our children in groups of worldly children, you will get worldly children. I don't remember the verse exactly. Worldly friends will corrupt good character. Kids begin to look to the leaders of the church and the behavior of the kids will attract them more than living a Godly ... Read Morelife (this is the sin nature.) It also keeps children immature. When kids sit in church with parents who teach them and make them listen , hold still, and participate they learn, understand what it is all about, and become responsible - they mature! This is what we should be striving for. Do whatever it takes to raise them in the Lord's ways and bring them to knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. This teaching and training is strenuous, constant, and holy. God will be your teacher, helper, and guide. Trust in Him.
God bless you and I love you,
Sierra

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Posted by Anonymous

I don't think people intentionally dumb up lessons for kids but I think that that often, they don't fully understand what kids are capable of understanding. From a psychology point of view, children develop cognitively at different rates. Because of this, children are grouped by ages for grades in school. Some kids, because of their influence or genetics or whatever you may believe are slower or faster at achieving cognitive understandings.

An example- Piper started her first year at Cubbies and she is turning 3 at the end of November. She is the youngest in her class and as we practiced the verses, I noticed she wasn't required to know the scripture references until she was age 4. Probably because most kids under four lack the ability to memorize all of that. But I felt that Piper had that ability and she did it. She memorized all four of the Bear Hugs with references. I felt she was cognitively ready to understand and she was. But if she was categorized by her age, she wouldn't have had that opportunity. If I don't feel that the lessons in church are making her grow, teaching her what she can truly understand then I'd consider it a babysitting service.

I know that PIper wouldn't understand anything in big church and probably wouldn't be able to until she was maybe 8 or 9. But if I felt she would, and that she would benefit from it, I would take her. You know your kids and what they have the ability to learn and also what is beyond their understanding. I didn't think Piper understood 'death' and she added onto her verse "Christ died for us...and he cried." But then again, she is around an 8 year old and 4 year old all day every day and it has allowed her to cognitively reach higher levels that the typical child her age.

I think we should evaluate anything we put our child in away from us. Every program is different and everyone teaches them differently. Do the people teaching our kids really know what each individual child we have is capable of? I don't want people to dumb up anything for my kids. I don't want them to teach them what they think is age appropriate but what they think is Piper appropriate or whatever in each instance. Why do we group our children by age? Because it follows cognitive norms. Although I don't necessarily agree with it, people decided that most kids are at the same cognitive level and would be easier to teach. Wouldn't that teach them to be like kids their age? It does teach them to be like kids their age and the kids that have the ability to understand more aren't able to but are only held back. Why do we dumb down the bible? (I described that above)Doesn't that teach them that they are too dumb to understand it? Dumbing down anything gives the impression that we don't want to spend time getting to know each child and their cognitive abilities. Why do we only teach them bible stories and not the living truth that is illustrated by those stories? I think Sunday school does it that way because it's easier, it's a large group of kids. Do they have time (or make the time) to show them the living truth? Doesn't that teach them that it is just like any other story book... meaningless to their own lives? Yes, it kind of does doesn't it? But then again, every sunday school is different, every teacher is different. We as parents have to evaluate it on our own, even though it is a church program. :)

-Brittany

Edited by challmeyeralways on Sep. 16, 2009 at 5:39 PM

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Posted by Anonymous

Is it child care so that we grown ups can sit and listen to the sermon?
This is exactly what I have come to believe. I admit I do use it now after a huge chunk of time of not. I go back and forth, honestly because sometimes I get tired. There is 3 of them and one of me, and if I am not getting anything out of the sermon because I am training then... Read More I'm not having ANY spiritual leadership for the entire week.

While I believe 100% children should be in church with the parents, my situation is not ideal, so I have to make sacrifices sometimes. And as much as I too love those at my church and have taught Sunday school in the past I know my children are learning more bad than good in the classes. They are exposed to peers they would not normally be exposed to, without me as a filter on the experience. Their worship is loud, often hip hop type music I would not allow at home and I feel they learn church is about them,making them happy and entertained and catering to their desire for fun. I pray with them beforehand and remind them church is about GOD and not THEM. They know that at middle school level (Peter should be now) they will no longer be allowed to go to class. As I type this I am convicted that Peter is too old to go ever. Abigail WONT go, so I have to wrestle her as it is. I think once I can get her into her class I'll pull Andrew back out. But it depends on what season I as a single mother (as far as spiritual matters and attending church go) am in.

-Angel

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Posted by Anonymous

Jerry and I were talking about this. You know Sunday school originated to teach reading and other basic skills, during the only time many were available for classes. Especially in the 1800s it was well used for immigrants to learn English. I think, from reading books like Anne of Green Gables, that it moved into age and sex segregated classes and used something like AWANA without the games, more of a vehicle for Scripture Memorization. Of course as the schools became more and more grade level oriented and churches larger it just made sense to divide the same way the schools do and use the same calendar. In too many homes Scripture is not used and parents depend on that hour in church each week for their children to be taught the Word. We used to think it was good for the children to go to Sunday School so they would be aware that mommy and daddy were not the only people who talked about God, that there were lots of Christians around. BUT by 3rd-4th grade our kids were coming home from Sunday School saying Mr. Miller said, knowing that their teacher was not in agreement with us doctrinally. We did not want that happening in Christian School, but were surprised to find it happening in our own church.
-Debbie

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Posted by Anonymous

You got some really great comments, but I decided to add my two cents, too! I was checking out The Joyful Chaos blog and happened upon a comment you made...which brought me here.
When we first started going to the church we still attend, there were some ladies who kept offering and reminding that they had a nursery and children's service. I only sort of knew one family in the church and did not feel comfortable leaving my children...I didn't use daycare or babysitters...why would I trust these people...just because they go to church?...uh, no! My daughter was 3 and my son was 1. She did try the preschool church a few times when a friend came to church with us, but then decided she didn't want to go again, and I wouldn't make her. I left my son with the family I sort of knew in nursery once. They gave the parents pagers in case they needed to contact us during church. Well, I didn't get paged, but arrived at the nursery to find my son had clung to their daughter the entire time and cried all through church. Never again would I leave him.

I grew up in church. My Mom used the nursery when she needed to nurse a baby or change a diaper. Otherwise, we were all in church with our parents and expected to behave. We could draw on the bulletin, look at the Bible or a songbook. I can't tell you how much I got out of a service back then, but I certainly learned how to behave in church.

My husband thought the children were a distraction, but I argued that all they needed was training. In the end, he agreed. If you've never checked out No Greater Joy ministries, you should! They have great info on training your children; it's about teaching them how to act before we get in the situation, not disciplining them when we've not training them how to behave.

My daughter enjoys Kid's Time Church now, and my son has attended many times with her, but is currently back in church with us. He is almost 7, but you would not believe the things he picks up from the church service...he surprises us! The other day he commented, "That's not yours, that belongs to God!" (which was straight from the sermon the Sunday before). Oh, and he has learned how to behave in church, too.

I very much agree with one Mom who said they would ask their children what they learned and the children would answer "nothing". So many years growing up in the church, attending Sunday school at times, and many Vacation Bible Schools...eventually, you just don't really learn anything...many of those things are designed for kids who are not saved.

And to answer your question, I do think that many people use the children's services at church as free daycare...they can sit quietly and let someone else have responsibility of their children. Many people are used to having others take care of their children for them. I'm not saying no one else ever takes care of my children, but God has given them to me to be responsible for, not someone else. We did have one man in our church complain about our children when we first began training them, but one out of a whole church is not bad. And I had one lady apologize to me for pestering me about the nursery, actually the same Sunday I had told my husband and God that if anyone mentioned taking my kids to the nursery that day, I was never going back to that chruch again. So there were a few mothers that backed me, and one who openly prayed for me in the training of my children to keep them in church with us at age 1 and 3.

So, I encourage you to do whatever you feel God has laid on your heart. Of course, with your husband's agreement. With God, all things are possible.

--Misty aka elvisgirl
www.thebasicsoflife-elvisgirl.blogspot.com

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Posted by TheBarnYardHen

I flip back and forth, my DD who is 13 sometimes sits with us, or volunteers to help in the nursery but she does not want to go to Childrens church.. In the begining when our church began to implement a childrens church they had the teens teach the kids... but I put a stop to my kids going during that time because of the lifestyle and behavior issues I had with the Teens who they themselves seemed very immature in their own faith...(especially when I had a confrontation by one of the teen girls).. From what I understood that Sunday School was also brought forth to reach out to the children who's families did not attend church another way to evangelize in hopes to get the parents to come... on top of trying to teach them the basics of "schooling"... Since then alot of change has happened Churches dont pay attention to what is being taught to the kids. I was shocked to know that when my kids were attending Sunday School by a friend of mine who was their SS Teacher they were doing more play and not required to bring their bibles? When she left the church I volunteered to take over for a year and you can bet I said that Bible Bringing is a must if you dont have a Bible I will buy one for you(which 2 kids I did) that when all else fails and everything is taken away the memorizing of scripture is a must.

Pray that the Lord will show you where to lead your children they are our responsibility not any one elses...

Jeannie

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Posted by Anonymous

I believe Sunday school was originally started as a ministry to teach poor children the word of God and to teach them to read and write.....It was Sunday SCHOOL.

God always dealt with Israel as a nation.You don't see them dividing the children up and taking them out to their Sunday school classes in the wilderness. Our culture divides age groups in just about every area. In God's economy, we all function as a family, a body. Children may not understand everything that is said in "big church", but they will grow in their understanding. And you might be surprised how much they actually DO understand! What they don't understand, the parents can explain at home. I think it's best for the family to learn together. For the children to learn how to interact with all ages and not just their peers. For the Word of God to be holy and not "silly-ized". There may be a lot of "good" in programs for the young. But what is God's BEST?
There are a lot of "Church Traditions" that we do that we don't even know why we do them or where they came from. The new Testament "Church" (assembly of Christ the Messiah) met daily and from house to house. They didn't have a lot of the "ceremonies" we hold so tightly too. They sang, they edified one another with songs and the Word. They had the Lord's supper together (probably with a meal),etc.
God does not divide His people into age groups. The older teach the younger, yes. God gives the older His Word, and they teach the younger. Mostly it is the parents responsibility to explain all the things to their children.....the same reason that we home school...it's our job to follow the Deut. mandate.

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Posted by garboodles

thank you for popping by yesterday. I am the Mama who's daughter just started Keepers Of The Home. From an early age our children have been in the service with us... I see it like this... If a child is hungry , you feed it.. The same goes for feeding their spiritual bodies...would you starve yourself? Of course not. I think we all need to be fed, especially spiritually. They take notes, they sit and listen and they learn. We go over the sermon later that day as well. So, my personal feelings on Sunday School is: There is no reason to separate the family who worships and prays together, we all get fed together in the worship service. I don't like the idea of separation. That is my opinion, yet I hope that will help you to think about what is best for your family and your beliefs.

Mica from The Child's Paper

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