I like sticking my nose into things and exploring them. Here is where I post about my findings. If you have something to add (either in support of my oppinion or not), by all means, speak up! I won't silence you. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/ en-us Homeschool Blogger Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:05:00 -0500 Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:05:00 -0500 I am sick of hearing people quote II Chronicles 7:14 and say "We need to pray for our nation. If we do, then God will not forsake us." I'm not kidding. I'm sick of it! Why? Because praying isn't the whole story. II Chronicles 7:14 says, "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, pray, seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land." Now don't get me wrong. The prayer of a righteous man avails much (James 5:16b). But prayer, it seems, isn't the only thing in the picture. "If my people who are called by my name humble themselves " There's one (a hard one, I might add) "... pray " There we go, two - prayer is in the picture "... seek my face Three "... and turn from their wicked ways " Four, and boy is it a crunch! " then I will hear from heaven...forgive...heal..." So while we are all nobly calling for people to 'pray for the nation,' are we actually doing anything else? Are we humbling ourselves before God, seeking his face, and turning from the way of the world? Or do we dutifully attend church Sunday and Wednesday and then kneel down by our bedside each night and pray that the nation might be healed, all the while ignoring the fact that we are the tools of God to bring about the very thing that we're praying for? God rarely spoke in claps of thunder and bolts of lightning. When he did, most people panicked. So he spoke and acted through ordinary men and women who were willing to be the instruments of God. Nowadays, however, it seems that many stand back and say, "Okay, God, do your stuff. We believe that through your awesome power ----- can be done!" We forget that we are like magnifying glasses: placed in direct sun (or Son, if you'd prefer), focused, and used to start a fire that can quickly become unstoppable. If we want our nation to be healed, we must pray like few have every prayed in all the history of praying. But we cannot let it end there. There will be no healing until we stop giving God the haughty eye, telling him that this or that is more important to us than he is. Things won't straighten out until we, as a nation, clean up our lives and seek the face of God. I am as guilty as the next person at only leaving it at prayer. This is a challenge, as much or more to myself than to you. Are we playing church, or are we the Church - a living, active, powerful organism infused with a passion for the God of the universe? http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/721130/ Wed, 26 Aug 2009 23:05:00 -0500 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/721130/ Yes, it's time for a new post, I know.   But about what?  I've been coming up blank every time I sit down to write, but now, I'm going to see if I can get past that void. To those of you reading Underground, I'm sorry that I don't post more often.  The chapters just come, well, slowly.  I'm in a difficult part of the book to write because I don't have some reasons for things. Hm.  I've been reading some interesting stuff in Hebrews lately....let's see what I can get for a post there....How about the humanity of Christ?  :)  Now I can give this post a title!   There are some who don't see Christ as being fully human during his three decades on earth, but the humanity of Christ is not only proven, but critically important.  Now God did not subject the coming world, about which we are speaking, to angles.  But someone has testified somewhere,        "What are human beings that you are                    mindful of them,           or mortals, that you care for them?      You have made them for a little while                    lower than the angels;           you have crowned them with glory and                    honor,           subjecting all things under their feet." Now in subjecting all things to them, God left nothing outside their control.  As it is, we do not yet see everything in subjection to them, but we do see Jesus, who for a little while was made lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. Heb. 2:5-9 Of course, we recognize the quote given as being from the Psalms, Psalm 8, to be exact.  I find the interpretation being given by the writer here quite fascinating.  Psalm 8 is, he says, speaking of humans.  According to the psalm, the writer notes, all things should be under our subjection, but they're not.  However, we see Jesus, who also fits the description of the psalm, with everything under His feet.  So the psalm becomes both an ode to human's seeming insignificance and God-given dignity, and a prophecy concerning the coming and mission of Christ. It was fitting that God, for whom and through whom all things exist, in bringing many children to glory, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through sufferings.  For the one who sanctifies and those who are sanctified all have one Father.  For this reason Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters, saying,     "I will proclaim your name to my                   my brothers and sisters,        in the midst of the congregation I will                  praise you." And again,      "I will put my trust in him." And again,      "Here am I and the children whom God                     has given me." Since the children share flesh and blood, he himself likewise shared the same thing, so that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by the fear of th death.  For it is clear that he did not come to help angels, but the descendants of Abraham.  Therefore he had to become like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he might be a merciful and faithful high  priest in the service of God, to make a sacrifice of atonement for the sins of the people.  Because he himself was tested by what he suffered, he is able to help those are being tested.  Heb 2:10-18 The 'one who sanctifies' is Christ, and 'those who are sanctified' are mankind.  We both come from one Father, God. ...then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. Gen. 2:7 ....son of Enos, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.  Luke 3:38  And And a voice came from heaven, "You are my Son, the Beloved; with you I am well pleased. Mark 1:11 Then from the cloud came a voice that said, 'This is my Son, my Chosen, listen to him!" Luke 9:35 Since, therefore, the children share flesh and blood (they have one Father, that is, God) Christ shared the same things, (flesh and blood - humanity) so that through death, he could destroy the one who wields death, Satan and free those living in fear of death.  Christ didn't come to help the angels, but those descended from Abraham. Because he was helping us, he had to become like us so that, when he became our mediator, he would understand our difficulties and be merciful.  He has been through it all, now he can turn and help us.  For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin.  Heb. 4:15 Christ walked a lifetime in our shoes, God of the Universe, yet still fully human.  If he were not fully human, he could not have become our mediator. Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Heb 4:16   http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/699340/ Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:33:00 -0500 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/699340/ Maybe it was at night.  Maybe it was in the broad daylight.  Perhaps God spoke directly to Abram, perhaps he spoke through a prophet.  Either way, Abram was called.  Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.  I will make of you a great nation, and will bless  you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.  I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.  Gen. 12:1-3 A promise of a nation, even though Abram was, at the time, without a son.  And yet it was fulfilled.  Israel became a great nation, and through it came Christ.  But during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., Israel was more or less lost. Or was it? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and the other by a free woman.  One, the child of the slave, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise.  Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants.  One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery.  Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.  But the other woman corresponds  to the Jerusalem above; she is free, and she is our mother. Now you, my friends, are children of the promise, like Isaac. That's Galatians 4:22-26 & 28.  Paul is kind of on a rant in Galatians.  "You foolish Galatians!" he cries.  "Who has bewitched you?  Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard?"  The Galatian church was following the idea that you needed to follow the law of Moses to be saved.  Shocked and horrifed, Paul writes to them, calling them back to the faith.  The law, he tells them, "...was added because of trangressions, until the offspring would come to whom the promise had been made..."  Yes, God made a promise to Abraham: a promise of a son and a promise of a country of his own.  But it went further than that.  Let's take a look at Hebrews 8:5. They offer worship in a santuary that is a sketch and shadow of the heavenly one; for Moses, when he was about to erect the tent, was warned, "See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain." C.S. Lewis had things figured out when he spoke of the Shadowlands.  The book of Hebrews speaks many times of the law being a 'shadow' and a 'sketch'.  The Old Testament was the Shadow.  Many things were hidden. (Matt. 13:17)  Everything was made physical so that people could grasp it:  A physical Israel, a physical Jerusalem, a physical temple.   But In speaking of "a new covenant," he has made the first one obsolete.  And what is obsolete and growing old will soon disppear.   "Okay," Paul and the writer of Hebrews tell us, "You got that physical stuff?  Good.  Now, that's a shadow. (Gal. 3:23-26)  Let's get into the real stuff."  We're doing a bad job of that.  We seem determined to cling to the physical portion of the promise with everything we have while God says, "That's over, done with.  I have something better."  The spiritual half of the promise. God promised Abraham, Isaac and, through Isaac, offspring.  We see the physical offspring in the Old Testament.  But the real promise was Christ.  "In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."  All.  Not just one. Just as Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness," so, you see, those who believe are the descendants of Abraham.  And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, declared the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the Gentiles shall be blessed in you." Gal. 3:6-8 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to the promise.  Gal. 3:29 It is not as though the word of God had failed.  For not all Israelites truly belong to Israel, and not all of Abraham's children are his true descendants; but "It is through Isaac that descendants shall be named for you.'  This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as descendants." Rom. 9:6-8 I think that God allowed Jerusalem to be destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D. because it was standing in between Him and His people.  The Jewish nation, Jerusalem, and the temple were all shadows that people focused on, turning away from the thing that cast the shadow:  true Israel (Gal. 3: 22-29), true Jerusalem (Rev. 21:10-21) and the true Temple. I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb.  Rev. 21:22 Shadows no more.  We've got something better coming.     http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/660108/ Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:55:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/660108/ My history class is amazing!  I'm learning so much it isn't even funny.  While I am learning about WWI and Basic Economic Systems, however, President Obama is getting ready to get a trillion dollar 'stimulus package' (aka spending bill) through the Senate and House of Representatives.  As one cross letter writer in my city states: The bill represents the biggest single expenditure in American history - ever.  It's price tag with interest is well over $1 trillion.  Here's some perspective:  Everyone concedes that George W. Bush spent too much money.  But it took the Bush administration more than two years and a global war on radical Islamic terrorism in the wake of the 9/11 attacks to increase the national debt by more than $1 trillion.  President Obama is on track to do it in his first month in office!  Everyone agrees that the American Economy is in bad shape.  Our nation is $10,716,892,995,970.23  (~10.7 trillion dollars) in debt.  Not a good thing.   Yes, we need stimulation. But our well-meaning president apparently hasn't studied his history.  Massive amounts of spending isn't going to make anything better.  Neither is printing more money.   Perhaps those folks in Washington should  get an overview of Laissez Faire Economics. Laissez Faire basically says that it is not the governement's business to tell businesses how to run their business, nor is it the government's job to regulate intrest rates and economics.  Doubtless, there are downsides to LF, but I must agree with it for the most part.  Government is the problem, not the solution, and should keep its nose out of most things. There was a president in our history who simulated the economy very nicely.  His name was John Calvin Coolidge.  He was born in 1872 and died in 1933.  He was originally Warren Harding's VP, but when Harding died on tour in 1923, Coolidge took over, ran for office in 1924, and served a term as president.W. Harding had begun a legacy of cutting government down, and Coolidge continued that.  He understood the bonds placed on government by the Constitution, and kept the government within them. The government has (or at least had at the time) its budget divided into thirds.  Two thirds were fixed, and the other third was labled 'discretionary spending.'  He decided to cut that and did.  By 60%.  We had an incredible time of prosperity.  The economy was, for the most part, in wonderful shape. Cutting spending.  What a novelty!  Thankfully, many people realize what this so called 'stimulus' bill really is and aren't happy about it.  I really must wonder, what if our government quit spending so much.  What if we could get rid of the very unconstitutional income tax?  What if people quit sitting on their rear ends getting fat off of checks from the government and actually applied themseves to a job?  Maybe then people could flourish. Maybe then we wouldn't 'need' all these illegal workers etc.  Every American would currently have to pay ~$35,000 to get our nation out of debt.   Could we maybe not make that price tag any higher??   Could we maybe lower it? http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/657589/ Thu, 12 Feb 2009 18:25:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/657589/ I'm obviously interested in political issues.  I have a website that I'm trying to get off the ground that I hope will become a place where people across the nation can get connected and keep tabs on the government.  It's a conservative, constitutional site for people who are concerned about the United States. It's not off the ground yet; I need writers and agents who are willing to study the Constitution and see if it is being followed by our Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches in Washington.  Please go there and check it out.  If you can help in any way, please let me know. Thank you. ~Justyne http://connectedamericans.synthasite.com/ http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/639697/ Sat, 3 Jan 2009 18:04:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/639697/ "Jack, when I was fourteen I was a man.  Had to be.  Well, looks like your father dying has made you a man too. "I'm giving you this Sharps.  She's an old gun, but she shoots straight.  I'm not giving this gun to a boy, but to a man, and a man doesn't ever use a gun unless he has to.  He never wastes lead shooting carelessly.  He shoots only when he has to and when he can see what he's shootin' at. "This gun is a present with no strings attached except that any man who takes up a gon accepts responsibility for what he does with it.  Use it to hunt game, for target practice, or in defence of those you love. "Keep it loaded always.  A gun's no good to a man when it'sempty, and if it is settin' around, people aren't liable to handle it carelessly.  They'll say, 'That's Jack Moffit's gun and it is always loaded.'  It is the guns people think are empty that cause accidents." ~ "The Mountain Valley War" by Louis L'Amour.  May, 1978, Bantam Books, New York. p. 12   "You know, Jack," he commented, "there's a clause in the Constitution that says the rigth of an American to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.  The man who put that clause there had just completed a war that they won simply because seven out of every ten Americans had their own rifles and knew how to use them.  They wanted a man to always be armed to defend his home or his country. "Right now there's a man in thies area who is trying to take away the liberty and freedom from some men.  When a man starts that, and when there is no law to help, a man has to fight.  I've killed men, Jack, and it's a bad thing, but I've never killed a man unless he forced me into a corner where it was me or him. "This country is big enough for all of us, but some men become greedy for money or power and come to believe that because they have the money and the power, whatever they do is right.  Your father died in a war for freedom just as much as if her was killed on a battlefield. "Whenever a brave man dies for what he believes, he wins more than he loses.  Maybe not for him but for me like him who wish to live honestly and decently."   ~ "The Mountain Valley War" by Louis L'Amour.  May, 1978, Bantam Books, New York. p. 13   http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/634181/ Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:23:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/634181/ Well?  Who are we anyway?  Do we even HAVE a national identity?  Are we Americans or something else?  There are people who say that they hate this country...while they enjoy the blood-bought freedoms that few other people in the world have. Fact is, we are sheltered.  I don't think we realize what it's really like not to have a country like this.  For around 200 years, we have been the greatest nation on earth.  We live in a place where everyone can have a chance at making something of themselves.  Sure, life isn't perfect, but it's pretty good.  Even families who are not considered so well off have electricity and running water.  Many people in the world can't boast that.  Realize what you have in your country and fight for it.  Don't expect problems to fix themselves. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/634127/ Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:47:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/634127/ I admit it, this blog is neglected by me.  I honestly don't know if anyone comes here anymore, but I've realized that, when it all comes down to it, that shouldn't hold me back from posting. There are alot of political posts swimming around in cyberspace right now, some for our President-Elect and some against him, and you're all probably sick of them.  But, at this point, I must rant. I am sick and tired of being called racist if I make it known that I don't support Mr. Obama.  I don't care what color a person's skin is, and wonder why we can't all just let the differences in color rest.  Why do we keep calling people who have a more mellanan in their skin that folks like me 'African American'?  They left Africa generations ago!   They're Americans, just like me and you; we're all pretty much the same when it all comes down to it.  Mr. Obama could be white as a clean sheet and I STILL wouldn't support him.  Why?  Because color isn't the issue here!  The issue is having a President who will keep his oath of office.  We need a man who will uphold the Constitution! Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or  abridging the freedom of speech,  or of the press;  or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Congress cannot declare a national religion.  We must also understand that by 'religion' the founders meant 'Christian denomination'.   This happened in several European countries, and millions were killed because they were not Catholic or Anglican etc.  Many of the survivors came to America where they would not be persecuted, and the founders did not want their journey to be in vain.  This doesn't mean that you can make statements in any manner that you like.  If you want to say 'I think the Bush administration has messed things up really badly,' you can.  That's your right.  It's also my right to say, 'I think we need to talk so that you can have a clearer understanding of what the Bush adminstration has done for us.'  It does not permit you desecrate the American flag, vandilize buildings or fences by painting them without permission of the owner, or throw things at people and shout profanities because you don't like them.  The government can't call up the newspapers and other media folk and say "Print/say this or else."  The story of John Peter Zenger is a wonderful example of why the founders placed this among the amendments.  Peaceful demenstration for or against something is perfectly fine.  It, however, does not allow people to take mob action.   Amendment II A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. If you are of age, you are permitted to own a firearm.  It makes no distiction between weapons used for hunting and those that are now called 'assult weapons', and I believe that the founders would be disgusted by such a distinction.  The ownership of these weapons are necessary for our freedom and security.   Amendment III No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. The government can't force you to allow your house to be used as a baracks.  This surprises us now, but in the time of the War of Independence, Britan was forcing Americans to do just that.   Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. The government can't just raid your house.  They must have a warrant, and that warrant must be supported by a witness.   Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. You can't be prosecuted for a captial (very serious, involving execution) crime unless on a presentment or indictment (formal statements that charge you with an offence) of a Grand Jury, you can only be prosecuted once for each crime, no one can force you to testify against yourself, there must be a 'due process' before anyone takes away your life, liberty or property, and the government cannot take away your private property (although there are some rare exceptions).   Amendment VI In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. Trials cannot be delayed, and they must be public.  The jury is not to be partial to one side or the other, and you shall be brought to trial in the district where you commited the crime.  You shall also be told what offence you are charged with, and you are given the right of having legal representation (a lawyer)   Amendment VII In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law. You have the right to trial by jury in a noncriminal trial as well.   Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. The court must allow you out of jail before the trial if you put up a reasonable bail.  If you are convicted, you cannot be subjected to a cruel or unusual punishment (a punishment disproportionate to your crime)     Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. (the Encarta Encylopedia puts this nicely) '...just because certain rights are not mentioned in the Constitution does not mean that they do not exist. Courts may not infer from the silence of the Constitution that an unlisted right is unavailable to protect individuals from the government.'     Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. The fedral government is limited in its authority.  If the Constitution does not give it the authority to do something, that authority belongs to the states and the people.   Do you think that your rights as stated here will be upheld by our President Elect?  Somehow I doubt it.  These rights are already abused, and that abuse is bound to only worsen. http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/625452/ Fri, 28 Nov 2008 13:51:00 -0600 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/625452/ Please read Part 1 before reading this part; it will make more sense. Part 2 of 5 In every New Testament example, the moment of salvation came after baptism.  Of course, there is no salvation-earning power in baptism, only salvation-accepting power.  IN the Bible, when believers decided to repent and give their lives to Jesus, the point at which they were saved was always at baptism. When Peter preached at Pentecost (Acts 2:38), he didn't say, "Repent sothat your sins may be forgiven and be baptized to show that you've been saved." (38) And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gisft of the Holy Spirit. In the Bible, every time that baptism and salvation are mentioned together, baptism always comes before salvation. "But John 3:16 says that whoever believes has eternal life.  It doesn't say a thing about baptism." (16) For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. And it also says nothing about repentance.  Consider the person who says, "Jesus, I accept you now as my personal Savior, but I'll continue to be my personal lord.  I like to do things my way."  We need to consider all of Jesus' words and not just a single verse. For example, Acts 3:19 says to repent so that your sins can be wiped away.  It doesn't mention baptism. (19)  "Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord..." But it also doesn't mention believing or confessing.  Does this verse mean we don't have to believe?  Does it mean it's okay to deny Jesus?  (Mt. 10:32-33) (32) "Every one therefore who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.  (33) But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." We need to consider all of Jesus' words and not just a single verse. Rom. 10:9-10 says it's with your mouth that you confess and are saved. (9)...that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; (10) for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation." It doesn't say anything about baptism.  But it also says nothing about repentance.  Once again, we need to consider all of the Scripture and not just a single verse. Does the Bible teach that some repented and had their sins forvien and then later believed, confessed, and were baptized?  Or did some confess and get saved, and later on believe, repent, and be baptized?  did some believe, have their sins forgiven, and just not get around to repenting, confessing, or being baptized? The notes on Rom. 6:3-4 in the NIV Study Bible state that in New Testament times, "baptism so closely followed conversion that the two were considered part of one event."  In other words, the Apostles and the New Testament writers considered baptism to be the point at which one was saved. (3) Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? (4) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. Today, since we're more enlightened that the inspired writers of the New Testament, we teach that "Baptism is an outward sign of what has already taken place on the inside."  BUt isn't it possible that baptism is an outward sign of what is taking place inside at the time of the baptism?  This is exactly what the NIV study notes say that the 1st Century Christians and inspired men of God believed and taught. For example, Peter preached that we should repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins. (Acts 2:38)  This inspired Apostle considered forgiveness of sins and baptism to be part of one event .  The notes in the NIV Study Bible state here that when Peter said "...for the forgiveness of sins," it's "not that baptism effects forgiveness.  Rather, forgiveness come through that which is symbolized by baptism." Baptism does indeed symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.  And Paul says if we've become united with Jesus in this symbol (the likeness of his death, burial, and resurrection) then we will certainly also beunited with him in his resurrection. (Rom. 6:3-5) (3) Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? (4) Therefore, we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.  (5) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, cerainly we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection... The obvious question is, what if we haven't become united wit him in the likeness of his death?  Will we certainly also be united with him in his resurrection anyway?  If we're going to be united with him in his resurrection anyway, then Paul's words here are totally meaningless.  But if the power of that which is symbolized by baptism is applied to our lives at baptism, then Paul's words here, as well as numerous other Scriptures, no longer need to be explained away.  Obviously, the Apsotle Paul considered baptism and salvation to be part of one event. When Philip the evangelist preached the good news about Jesus to the Ethiopian eunuch, we know Phili began with Isaiah 53, but we don't know exactly what he said from there. (7) He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He did not open His mouth; Like a lamb that is led to slaughter, And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, So he did not open His mouth.  (8) By oppression and judgement He was taken away; And as for His generaltion, who considered That he was cut off out of the land of the living, For the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due. But we do know what the eunuch's response was.  He said, "Here is water.  Why shouldn't I be baptized?" (Acts 8:26-39) (36) And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look!  Water!  What prevents me from being baptized?"  (37) And Philip said, "If you believe with all your hear, you may."  And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."  (38) And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as wel as the eunuch; and he baptized him. (39) And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing. Philip didn't say, "Oh  no, you misundertand.  When Paul spoke of baptism in Rom. 6 he wasn't speaking of water baptism. (4) Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. "Everybody knows we're not to be born of water and the Spirit. (Jn. 3:5) (5) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly I say to you, unlesso ne is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." "We're only to be born of the Spirit."  New Testament Christians undersood that the Holy Spirit was involved in water pabtism.  Baptism simply means immersion.  Anyone who dieves into a swimming pool has been immersed (or baptized).  Without the Spirit's involvement, baptism is meaningless and Jesus would have never commanded his followers to do it. (Mt. 28:19) (19) "Go therefore and make deciples of all the nation, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit..." So Philip and the sunuch both went into the water and Phlip baptized him.  We know the eunuch wasn't baptized to show he had been saved becasue he and Philip were the only ones there.  If baptism is for howing that a person hed been saved, the eunuch would have waited until he got home.  Obviously, Philip and the eunuch considered baptism and salvation to be part of one event. When the Apostle Peter got in trouble for fellowshipping with Gentiles, (Acts 10) (27) And as he talked with him, he entered, and found many people assembled.  (28)  And he said to them, "You yourselves know hos unlawful it is for a man who is a Jew to associate with a foreigner or to visit him, and yet God has shown me that I should not call any man unholy or unclean." He explained everything to the Jewish Christians "precisely as it had happened."  (Acts 11:1-18) (3....saying, "You went to uncircumcised men and ate with them." ....(9) "But a voice from heaven answered a second time, 'What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.' ...(12) And the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. ... (17) If God therefore gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" As Peter "began to speak" to the Gentiles, (Acts 11:15) even before the message had been heard, The Holy Spirit came on them just as he had come on the Apostles on Pentecost. (15) "And as I becan to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, just as He did upon us at the beginning." After the Holy Spirit was poured out on Pentecost, about 3,000 Jewish people were baptized for forgiveness of sins and added to the church. (Acts 2:41, 47) (41) So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and there were added that day about three thousand souls. ... (47) ...praising God, and having favor with all the people.  And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. Then, when the Holy Spirit was agains poured out on Cornelius' group - who were Gentiles - Peter realized God was showing that Gentiles could be saved, too.  So peter ordered that they also be baptized for forgiveness of sins. (Acts 10:47- 48) (47) "Surely no one can refuse the water for shese to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"  (48)  And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.  Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. When Paul and Silas were singing and praying in prison about midnight, the jailer took them to his home and asked them what to do to be saved.  THey said believe in the Lord Jesus.  Of couse, you can't believe in whom you have not heard, so Paul and Silas spoke the word of the Lord to him and his family.  We dont' know exactly what was said but speaking the word of the Lord resulted in the jailer and his family  being baptized some time between midnight and daybreak. (Acts 16: 25 - 35) (30) ...and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"  (31)  And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household."  (32)  And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. (33) And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.  Obviously, when the Apostles were leading the church, baptism and salvation were considered to be part of one event. When Paul was telling about his conversion to Christianity, he said that Ananias told him to be baptized and wash his sins away.  (Acts 22:16) (16) 'And now why do you delay?  Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, caling on His name.' Ananias taught that baptism was for the forgiveness of sins and Paul believed him.  The notes in the NIV Sudy Bible state here that "baptism is the outward sign of an inward work or grace."  This is true.  But it goes on to day, "The outward rite, however, does not produce the inward grace."  The inspired writers knew baptism didn't earn anything but they certainly believed the inward grace occurred during baptism. For example, Paul said that we are all sons of God through faith, because all of us who were baptized have clothed ourselves with Christ.  (Gal. 3:26 - 27) (26) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.  (27) For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Does it make any sense for Paul to say this if we can be sons of God through faith and clothed with Christ without baptism? Pual said that we were spirituall circumcised (our sins were removed), having been buried with Jesus in baptism and raised with him by faith in God.  (Col. 2:11 - 13) (11) ...and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; (12) have been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. (13) And when you were dead in your trasgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions... Why would Paul say this if we can have our sins removed without being buried with him?  When we deny that baptism washes away sins and claim we can become sons of God through faith without obeying God in baptism, we render Paul's words meaningless. What did Peter mean when he spoke of the baptism that now saves us?  (I Peter 3:21) (21)  And corresponding to that, baptism now saves you - not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - though the resurrection of Jesus Christ .... Some believe that when Peter said, "not the removal of dirt from the body," he meant "not the removal of sin from the body."  But even if that tortured explanation is true, Peter still said that baptism saves us.  I wonder what it saves us from if not from sin? It was hundreds of years after the Apostles had died before men decidded that forgiveness of sins occurred before baptism.  But doesn't it seem wiser to teach people to become Christians the same way that Paul, Philip, Peter, Ananias, and other New Testament Christians taught people to become Chrstians?  The way being taught today is different than the way described in the New Testament.  Jesus purchased our salvation with his blood that was hsed for the forgiveness of sins.  (Mt. 26:28) (28) "...for this is My blood of the covenant, which is to be shed on behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." All we need to do is be cleansed with his blood.  How did God choose for us to come in contact with Christ's blood?  In Heb. 9:14 we learn that Jesus' blood cleanses our conscience from dead works so that we can serve the living God. (14) ...how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish ot God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? I Peter 3:21 says that baptism is an appeal to God for a good conscience.  Other Bible versions say baptism is an answer or a pledge for a good conscience.  (21b)...but an appeal to god for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.... Why should we consider it odd that we would come into contact with Jesus' blood when we are crucified with Christ and buried with him in baptism? (Rm. 6:3-5) (3) Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?  (4) Therefore, we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father, so we too might walk in newness of life.  (5) For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of his deat, cerainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection... Why should we consider it odd that we're born again of water and the Spirit (Jn. 3:3-8) at the time we're raised with Christ through baptism to walk in newness of life? (Rom. 6:5 - 11) It would be odd if it weren't so. (Jn. 3:5) "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. ~~~~~ Thank you for swimming through yet another long section of this study.  I hope that it has benifitted you.  I'll get part 3 up as soon as I can.     http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/572707/ Sun, 10 Aug 2008 17:57:00 -0500 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/572707/ Yes, this is long.  The origanal study is twelve pages long.  I've divided it up into five parts to make shorter posts.  In the study, references are given, but the verses are not written out.  I have written out the verses here, using the ASV. I hope this is of help to you. Part 1 of 5 Baptism is really not a difficult subject.  The first half of this study deals with the baptism practiced by New Testament Christians.  We will look at other baptisms in the last half of this study.  In Heb. 6:1-2, Paul speaks of repentance, faith, baptisms (or washings), and such as first principles of Christianity (1) Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, (2) of instruction about washings, and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgement. While we can certainly develop deeper understanding of these elementary teachings, they can be easily  understood by a new Christian or someone investigating Christianity.  In Mt. 11:25, Jesus speaks of little children understanding more than the wise and learned. (25) At that time Jesus answered and said, "I praise Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou didst hide these things from the wise and intelligent and didst reveal them to babes." Obviously, someone who is searching Scripture to see what it says will do better than someone who has already decided what the Bible teaches. The Bible is very clear on the subject of baptism.  The confusion stems not from what Scripture says, but rather from what man has decided that Scripture says.  I don't know who said the following, but it illustrates the problem: If a rich man were to say, "He that believes and is baptized shall be given one thousand dollars," no one would misunderstand.  No one would fail to do just that because of the money reward offered.  But when Jesus said, "He that believes and is baptized shall be saved," (Mk. 16:16), somebody is always ready to say, "I just cannot see it that way.  That makes baptism too important."  How wise are men for a dollar - how foolish for a soul. (Note from the Truth Seeker: Mr. Yeager here echos a quote from 'Bulwarks of the Faith' by Foy E. Wallace Jr. Here is the quote:  "Which do you choose?  If the sentence [He that believeth and baptized shall be saved] should be paraphrased to read, 'He that believeth and is baptized shall receive $5,000, but he that believeth not shall receive nothing,' not a person would fail to understand it, or apply it, including all these ranting radio preachers. "If Noah had said 'he that believeth and entereth the ark shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be destroyed' could an antedeluvian [pre-flood] believer have been saved without entering the ark - by only believing? "When God appoints two things for the accomplishment of one end, it takes both to accomplish that end.  Will anyone therefore dare say, 'he that believth but will not be baptized shall be saved'?"  That said, we go back to Mr. Yeager.) I've been told that I was trying to earn my salvation because I was baptized so that my sins would be forgiven.  Acts 2:38 (38) And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. But if a rich (and eccentric) man gave me a thousand dollars for believing and being baptized, I doubt anyone would say I earned the money.  They might say I'm lucky or they might accuse me of ripping off a foolish old man, but no one would say, "Wow, you really worked for that money.  I sure with I knew how to be baptized like you so that I could earn money like that.  But I'm afraid being baptized requires so much time, effort, and skill that I would never be able to accomplish it." I  suppose there is some work involved in baptizing if you're the one doing the baptizing.  But the person being baptized doesn't do anything except submit to the procedure.  Awhile back there was a popular song that went something like this: "That ain't working; That's the way you do it; Relax you body in the baptistry." Or maybe it was: "Play the guitar on the MTV."  But playing a guitar takes time and effort and skill.  At any rate, when it comes to baptism, "That ain't working; That's the way you do it; Man earns nothing and salvation is free." I'm not saything that there isn't any work involved in salvation.  Paul told the Philippians to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12) (12) So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling... Maybe he's talking about baptism in icy cold water.  That would bring on fear and trembling.  And you'd have to "work" up the courage to get in.  But that's obviously not what he's talking about.  When the crowd asked Jesus what work God wanted them to do, Jesus told them to believe.  (John. 6:28-29) (28) They said therefore to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" (29) Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." Of course, there's not mcuh work involved in believing if you believe like the demons believe. (James 2:19)   (19) You believe that God is one.  You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But if your belief includes repentance, that's where the work comes in.  Being baptized is easy.  Repentance is tough.  If you want to work out your own salvation, try repenting.  To "repent" means to "change".  Try changing old habits.  It's not easy to control a hot temper or clean up your language.  (Col. 3:8) (8) But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speach from your mouth. Little "white" lies are tough to give up. (Col. 3:9) (9) Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices. It takes effort to clean up your thought life. (Phil. 4:8 and 2 Cor. 10:5) (8) Finally brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things. (5) We are destroying speculation and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. It's hard to consider others more important than yourself. (Phil. 2:3-4) (3) Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself; (4) do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Making God first in your life is easier said than done. (Matt. 6:33) (33) But seek first His kingdom, and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you. It's not easy giving control of your life to Jesus. (Matt. 7:21) (21) Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father, who is in heaven. We want to be in charge.  But before you can be saved, you have to make the decision to submit your life to the will of God. Here's the problem: one one hand, the Bible says to work out your own salvation. (Phil. 2:12)  On the other hand, it says that salvation is by grace and not of works. (Eph. 2:8-9) (8) For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; (9) not as a result of works, that no one should boast. So either the Bible contradicts itself or we're misunderstanding something.  The confusion comes when we say there is nothing a person can do to be saved and then we turn around and point out what you have to do to be saved.  But we don't really mean "there is nothing you can do to be saved."  What we actually mean is, "there is nothing you can do to 'earn' salvation." The Bible says if we try to "earn" even a part of our salvation, it's an insult to God. (Isa. 64:6)  Try telling people that you "helped" God create the solar system.  It's an insult.  So when it comes to eternal life, Jesus did 100% of the earning.  We do 0% of the earning.  That's because there is nothing we can do to "earn" salvation.  All we can do is "accept" salvation.  And accepting salvation requires that we "do" something to accept it. Belief is necessary (John 8:24) but there is no salvation earning power in believing in Jesus. (24) "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins." There is only salvation-accepting power in belief.  Repentance is necessary (Luke 13:3) but regardless of how much effort we put into it, there's no salvation-earning power in repentance. (3) "I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." There is only salvation-accepting power in repentance. So after teaching people that there is nothing they can do to be saved, we print up tracts and pamphlets telling people what they must do to be saved.  Of course, what we really mean is that you can't earn salvation but here's how you accept salvation: 1. Realize that we are sinners and will be lost eternally.    A few examples from the Bible:  Mt. 25:41: "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels...' " Rom. 3:9-12, 23: What then?  Are we better than they?  Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; (10) as it is written, 'There is none righteous, not even one; (11) there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; (12) all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.' (23)...for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God... Rom. 6:16, 23: Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?  ...  (23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. 2. Realize that only Jesus can save us.    A few examples from the Bible: Acts 4:12: And there is salvationin no one else; fro there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved. Rom. 6:23: For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Eph. 2-8-9, 12: For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that no f oyourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast...(12) remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and stranger to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 2 Cor. 5:21: He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 3. We must believe before we can be saved.    A few examples from the Bible: Mk. 16:16: He who has believed and has been been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. John 3:16, 36: For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life...(36) He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. John 8:24: "I said therefore unto you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins." Acts 16:31: And they said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you and your household." 4. We must repent before we can be saved.    A few examples from the Bible: Luke 13:3: "I tell you, no, but, unless you repent you will all likewise perish." Acts 2:38: And Peter said to them, "Repent, and let each of you be baptized for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 3:16: Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord... Acts 17:30: Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all everywhere sould repent. 5. We must confess before we can be saved.    A few examples from the Bible: Mt. 10:32-33: "Everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven.  But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." Acts 8:37: And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may."  And he answered, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son the God." Rom. 10:9-10: ...that if you confess with your mouth Hesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 6. The moment of salvation comes when we ask Jesus to come into our heart and be our savior.    A few examples from the Bible: ??? Isn't it incredible that we follow God's way right up until the moment of salvation?  Then we turn around and receive salvation in man's way.  We follow the Scripture very carefully right up to the point of being born again and then, out of the blue, we come up with a man-made prayer that is found nowhere in Scripture, and we call that the "new birth"  As Paul said in Gal. 5:7, "You were running a good race.  Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth?"  It's almost as though we're saying, "Okay God, thanks a lot.  We can take it from here.  Your Word brought us right up to the point of salvation but we'd like to actually receive salvation in our own way,"  Of course, God wats us to be saved so much that he might well accept us on our own terms rather than on his terms, but our rejection of his beautiful plan of salvation must hurt him. Someone will say, "But praying for salvation is scriptural.  Look at Rom. 10:13." (13)..for "whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." But this verse can't mean that everyone who says "Lord, Lord," will be saved.  (Matt. 7:21) (21) "Not every one who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father, who is in heaven." "Calling on the Lord" abviously includes doing things God's way rather than man's way.  Does Rom. 10:13 mean we don't have to repent and make Jesus the Lord of our lives before we can be saved?  "Jesus, I call on your name and ask you to be my personal savior here and now.  I'll continue to be my own personal lord but after I've been saved a few years, I'll consider making you the lord of my life."  I wouldn't bet eternity on that one. How about Rev. 3:20? (20) 'Behold, I stand at the door and nock; if any one hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with Me.' This beautiful Scripture is Jesus calling the Christians at Laodicia to come back to him.  It's good to know that once you've become a Christian, if you ever fall away, he will always be there, asking you to come back.  But what about those non-Christians who have never been saved?  This verse isn't speaking to them.  Once of the many spiritual blessings of being in Christ, (Eph. 1:3) (3) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ. ...is the benifit of being able to pray for forgiveness of sin.  Non-Christians don't have this benefit.  If a non-Christain sincerely prays for salvation, God will send someone to tell them God's way of salvation.  When Saul realized his sin, he prayed for three days. (Acts 9:1-18) (11) And the Lord said to him, "Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying..." But praying won't wash away a non-Christian's sin.  Still, sencere prayer is effective.  Gor God sent Ananias, a Christian, to tell Saul how to wash away his sins. (Acts 22:12-16) (16) "And now why do you delay?  Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name." Some people, desperate to hang onto man's way of salvation, have said that Saul was a Christain before he was baptized.  But how can one be a Christain and still need to have his sins washed away? Then there's Luke 18:13-14. (13) "But the tax-gatherer, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!'  I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted." This man, like the thief on the cross, lived and died under the Law of Moses.  God, who ever changes, has always given salvation to the same group of people: those who are imperfectly obediant to him.  (Those who are perfectly obedient don't need salvation...and don't exist. Rom. 3:23) (23) ..for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. The Old Testament said were saved by obeying God's law given though Moses.  New Testament saints are saved by obeying God's law given through Jesus Christ.  Although God's law has changed, (Heb. 8:13)... (13) When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.  But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. God is still the same and he still saves those who obey him.  (Heb. 5:9) (9) ...and having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation.. But we're not being obedient if we insist on being saved under Old Testament law. To be continued as soon as I get the next part typed out....         http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/547656/ Sat, 14 Jun 2008 14:03:00 -0500 http://www.homeschoolblogger.com/TruthSeeker/547656/