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• Feb. 7, 2006 - It's Debatable

Question number 6 on my blogger poll asked this; Do you ever find yourself wishing people would not always leave comments that agree with you?  What I should have asked was, Would you like comments that start a debate?  I don’t think it would have changed my poll results but I do think some people might have understood better what I was asking. 

 

55 people said they would not like comments that would disagree with what they had posted.  Most of these bloggers did say that they hoped who ever left a comment would be honest, and that if someone disagreed with them that they would do so in love. 

 

4 people said they would like to receive comments that didn’t always agree with them.

 

I do know if I wrote things and got negative comments I would not be offended. I know sometimes other people have said things that have opened my eyes to something I didn't see.

 

I think there are several reasons for such a lopsided result. 

 

  1. As stated by this blogger:  … I don't think that this is the forum for that.
  2. Most people want encouragement, and don’t want confrontation.
  3. I’m not sure people really understand the meaning of debate.

 

When asked if they like debates, many people will answer no.  When I ask why, they say it’s because it just leads to ugliness, mud slinging, and decides nothing.  They get this impression from political leaders and zealous apologists.  The fact is these are not debates.  It’s a show of force, shoving an ideology down your opponents throat, and dancing around the questions put to them.  They get ugly because the people involved don’t know how to control themselves, as well as let it become an emotional agenda.

 

Here is the definition of debate: a contention by words or arguments: as a : the formal discussion of a motion before a deliberative body according to the rules of parliamentary procedure b : a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides

 

At first glance many people will point out the words contention and argument as reasons for not liking debate.  So lets take a look at contention and argument.

 

Contention - a point advanced or maintained in a debate or argument. 

Many people view contention as something that causes stress, and unfriendly relationships.

 

Argument - a reason given in proof or rebuttal or discourse intended to persuade.

In this instance one who is debating is arguing FOR his cause, not WITH the person he is debating against. 

 

In a debate both parties have a goal to set forth their case for why their idea is better.  It is mainly supported by facts, and some opinion. 

 

Today “debating” parties set forth their goal as righteousness and it is filled with emotional exchange.  Very few facts are involved, and they like to skirt the questions put to them.  They do this for several reasons: 

 

  1. Since it’s not a real debate they did not prepare themselves for the inevitable questions that result from their comments.  Since they didn’t prepare for it they don’t know how to answer it, so avoid it behind mumbo jumbo that they hope gives the impression that they are intelligent and that the audience is to dumb to know what just happened. 
  2. Since their arguments are not based on facts, they don’t have any facts to rebut with.  Again leading to the above mentioned mumbo jumbo dance.
  3. They don’t even know what they are really debating about.  Which once again leads to that ever popular with politicians, the MJ boogie. 

 

My Papafather loved debate.  So much so that once he got one started, mid stride he would change his position over to his opponents side.  Not because he was wishy-washy, but because he could argue either side.  That’s what a good debater can do.  Why?  Because the argument is based on facts, not emotions.  It didn’t mean that Papafather actually believed that the other side of the coin was correct, but he could make you believe that he did.  This really caused a lot of confusion for those he was debating with! 

 

I have a very good friend that I have debated with on a couple of occasions.  In the end we agreed to disagree.  We are still very good friends.  Our debates have never become heated fights where one or the both of us wind up in tears.  Instead we each state our case, we listen to the answers and questions put to us and then refute them. 

 

I have been in several Bible study groups where a different opinion is thrown into the ring.  Everyone sits there and looks at that person as if he just developed a large tumor on the side of his head but they are afraid to bring it up as that might cause attention to the problem.  After a moment of silence, what was said is completely ignored and they move on with their happy little “discussion”.  The trouble is they don’t learn anything.  They are happy in their ignorance (the ingnorance of not knowing how to defend their stand with scripture,) and happy to have others agreeing with their thoughts because that makes them right.  They don’t like waves against their carefully built house on the sand. 

 

If you don’t agree with someone in a Bible study then back it up with scripture (the facts).  Point out why you don’t agree with verses and even with some experiences.  If you have a leg to stand on then your thoughts will be seen as credible.  If not be prepared to take a surfboard with you, because you’ll be swimming soon.  I have learned a lot through debate, because the person who I was listening to had something to say, not an ego to protect.  You’ll have learned how to back up what you believe if you have your facts straight and ready.  

 

So, that brings me to a thought, should I start a debate blog?  We could start really simple and small, like what is healthier, the oatmeal cookie or the fig newton?  Work our way up with, which is more destructive, fire or water?  Finally, we could hit the big time, homeschool or unschool; eclectic or canned; unit study or classical? 

 

What do you think? 

 




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• Feb. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by OreoSouza
What an interesting, thorough job you've done with this poll!

And I love a nice, healthy, respectful debate. Perhaps it would be more truthful for me to say I love to *watch* a nice healthy respectful debate. I only go so deep, then I stall...but my brain keeps working, so I like to watch others continue on.
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• Feb. 7, 2006 - Debate

Posted by kindredspiritMom
I love a good debate ~ especially when both parties are truly seeking truth. I'll keep checking your blog to see which cookie I should eat! Personally, I think fig newtons are overrated and have a high sugar content, while oatmeal cookies are whole grain and heart healthy. :)
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• Feb. 8, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by Col323
Well put! I've enjoyed this spunky post!
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• Feb. 8, 2006 - Homeschoolers and Debates

Posted by creativehsmom
We used to have a local debate club at our co-op but it was dropped due to lack of interest. IMHO, I think it's healthy for a homeschooler to learn about properly debating an issue. As Christians, we should take a course in debate. We should always seek to defend the Word of God and learning to debate will help us to better accomplish this. If you have a strong taste for creation science, you have to learn how to debate correctly!
Good Post!
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• Feb. 8, 2006 - I don't agree!

Posted by Confessor
You're wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm not listening! LALALALALA!

Oh, you wanted a debate? That's down the hall.


On a more sane note, I agree that most people (homeschoolers or otherwise) never learn to debate viewpoints. Most schools actually encourage emotional arguing because it's more "passionate" and "visceral".

Unfortunately, it also gets people attached to their position, divorced from fact, and creates bad feelings.

I frequently make my kids defend what they want to do with fact-based reasoning. If they can make a good argument, I'll let 'em. If they can't, I don't.

I'm such a meanie.
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• Feb. 8, 2006 - Don't kill me but you are tagged!

Posted by mamaduso
Four jobs you have had in your life:


Four movies you could (or do) watch over and over:


Four places you have lived:


Four shows you love to watch (or did before the TV moved out):


Four places you have been on vacation:


Four websites you visit daily:


Four of your favorite foods:


Four places you would rather be right now:



Four bloggers you are tagging:

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• Feb. 9, 2006 - Yes!

Posted by
Let's totally start a debate blog. That would be so cool. I've been doing this by email all across the continent for years now.

BTW, I've got doula training links posted now. :~)

Cat, Lazy Creek Zookeeper
featuring a pack of ground sloths

PS I'm sending the link for this post to pretty much every Christian I've got email for. This is a big "contention" for me right now, after listening to a lot of people lately who like to pick at others but won't address their problems to the source. True, *healthy* debate based on Scripture is the antidote to griping gossip.

Edited by Lazycreek on Feb. 9, 2006 at 7:01 AM
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• Feb. 9, 2006 - Ahhh...

Posted by takingthechallenge
...debates! Funny how that word brings up so many emotions. On the one hand, I love thinking things through. On the other, I H A T E how often debates end up ugly and purely emotional. I think debates in written form are great since people can take time to think before they speak. Not that they always use that gift of time to think through their response ;)
I have recently been reading through two separate blogging debates and one remained very civil, though the debate was heated in the sense of people feeling strongly about their positions. However, they didn't resort to ugliness. On the other hand the other debate got so ugly, it left me sickened and women that I previously respected, I really lost all respect for.
So...to keep this long comment from being a post in and of itself, I vote for "civil debates" and if people can't stay civil, I don't think they should debate in this family friendly environment...does that make sense ?
Great job on your poll, btw! Enjoyed it, the responses, and your follow-up posts.
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The politically incorrect ramblings of a sage rat den mother. As well as thoughts on adoption, special needs children, and My Lord and Savior.


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