Spunky Homeschool

Monday Musings

Apr. 17, 2006 at 10:19 AM

Homeschooling

Here's a few news items of interest. I also have a question at the end. I'd love to hear your opinion.

Quote of the Day
"In public education, we don't ask kids to think. There is little pushing back on a kid to get him to explain, 'How do you know what you know?' "
So said Chief Accountability Officer Meria J. Carstarphen of the Washington D.C. schools. The quote was in reference to new types of questions being asked on their standardized exams to get children to explain their aswers. My advice: Beware the thought police.

Education News recognizes Why Homeschool
Congrats to Henry Cate for his well done interview with Education News. Nice job Henry.

Reasons to homeschool and political affiliation
According to a recent Harris online interactive survey
Republicans are more likely than Democrats to know someone who currently homeschools their child (40% vs. 29%). Party identification also distinguishes adults' views on parents' motivations for homeschooling their children. Republicans are more likely than Democrats to cite religious or moral instruction (69% vs. 56%) and student behavior problems (50% vs. 43%) as main reasons behind homeschooling. In contrast, Democrats are more likely than Republicans to cite schools being too crowded to provide individual attention (44% vs. 35%) and educating children with special needs (42% vs. 33%) as main reasons for homeschooling.
Homeschoolers Anonymous
Homeschool graduates who go on to Harvard have banded to together to form their own club. The founder of the group says he picked the name to make fun of the stereotype that "all homeschoolers lack social skills and need support to enter society."

What would you have done?
This isn't exactly homeschool related but I'm curious how others would have repsonded. A few weeks ago I was in church enjoying a bagel after service. I glanced to my left and a young lady about nineteen years of age was sitting with her friends. Obvious, to anyone within a 15 foot distance was the fact that her low riding jeans were, well, riding kinda low. Real low. I hope I don't need to say any more than that. I wasn't the only one who noticed. Plenty of eyes were upon her. I discreetly walked up to her, tapped her on the shoulder, and whispered that her back end was showing. Obviously embarrassed she hoisted up her jeans and quickly left the scene. No more was said. Until yesterday. Her angry mother thought my actions were totally inappropriate and let me know it in no uncertain terms. Her mother was not there during our first encounter otherwise I would have spoken to her directly. But I would have felt awful not saying anything. I was stunned. I was trying to save this young lady from embarrassement. But this mother made me feel awful for saying something and thought my actions incredibly judgmental of her daughter. Saying I should just be thankful she was in church no matter how she was dressed. For me it wasn't WHAT she was wearing, but HOW she was wearing it. Or not wearing it in this case.

So what do you think? Was I wrong to say something? What would you have done?

Further, with summer months approaching how do you handle the public "undressing" of young ladies. My own 17 year old daughter wouldn't consider dresssing in the tops that at one time only worn UNDER something else.. She's not a frump either but has too much self respect to dress in many of today's styles.

16 Comments and Trackbacks

posted by CommunicationFUNdamentals on Apr. 17, 2006 at 12:13 PM

Oh... this is one of my pet peeves about today's styles. It's not just the young ladies in my area, it's the young men as well.

My dd is very modest, but, as you said of your dd, a snappy dresser. We have a very hard time buying clothes for her. You can't find anything that isn't low rider jeans or midriff tops with low cut everything! In fact, you can't find anything else for girls as young as even 7 years old!!

As I said, the girls aren't the only ones. The guys are wearing even lower riding jeans! lol I mean half way down their hind quarters! The idea is for their underwear to show and sometimes more than just their underwear. Then sometimes they wear no shirt as well.

I have not really seen this in church, but outside of church. I have often thought of saying something to them, but this is a hot button with people- at least here where I live. If you do say something it falls on deaf ears at best. At worst, you could start an incident. People who dress this way know that these parts of their body are showing. That's the point for them. They want to cause others to stare. They want to shock. My dh and I have often spoken up on other issues and had parents take offense or the teen themselves object or even get violent.

I was surprised that this young lady was embarrased. I am pleased that this was not her intent. I think because it was in church she may have been at least aware of modesty. As a new Christian it can take a while for these types of things to manifest themselves in their lives. Possibly her parents are new Christians or she has just come back to the church herself.

I suspect you tried to explain to her your reasoning and your heart for her dd. Maybe some day she will understand.

JoJo

posted by jaminacema on Apr. 17, 2006 at 12:39 PM

What a awful thing for that Mom to say to you. She should have been THANKING you and APOLOGIZING for her daughters inappropriate dress!! What has happened to our society? It's sad. I have no answer for how to protect our kids from the inappriopriate dress. Of course my kids are convered, but they see way too much flesh around them. I just keep telling them it is wrong. I hope they are learning by our example.

posted by homeiscool on Apr. 17, 2006 at 1:44 PM

Of course it was right of you to inform this girl that her whatever was showing. It's just common courtesy, like if she had a length of toilet paper stuck to her shoe or something. She thanked you, so who cares what her mom said.

In my limited experience, the kind of reaction you got from the mom was probably due to her own sense of guilt over the issue in some way. Maybe she felt she should have said something to the daughter, or something like that. She was embarrassed, and perhaps thought in her mind that others were talking about her ability to control her daughter. When people lash out, it is often because of their own perceived shortcomings.

You did the right thing, you were discreet, and anyone should have appreciated it.

posted by spunkyhomeschool on Apr. 17, 2006 at 2:24 PM

Homeischool:

She didn't thank me. She just hoisted them up and quickly left. She was standing right beside her mother as her mother vented at me. When I explained that the girl's back end was showing, she shook her head in denial. Her mom believed her. So obviously there are other issues going on here besides just her clothing.

posted by on Apr. 17, 2006 at 2:42 PM

You did the right thing, Spunky, in spite of the defensive reaction you got. I agree that it's just like informing some one their blouse is unbuttoned, or they have spinach in their teeth. You were doing her a *courtesy.* Yes, it's embarrassing to realize you've been walking around with a button loose (any nursing moms here want to raise their hands? LOL! I will) but usually, you really appreciate someone telling you about it!! The mom and daughter were totally out of line being defensive about it.

P.S. Is anybody else as shocked as I am to see lingerie worn as outerwear? I just can't believe what I see in magazines these days.

My oldest girls are still young (10 and 8), but I would agree it is surprisingly hard to find good clothing (at the price I need) that doesn't bare the belly button, even at Wal-Mart. I guess that's where sewing skills come in handy. Those long denim skirts are really cute, paired with a plain t-shirt. Often the big-name department stores have classy, modest stuff, but at a steeper price. I generally shop yard sales, so getting rid of any clothing that doesn't work out is pretty painless on the pocketbook. They usually dress casually, in jeans and t-shirts.

Edited by SusannahCox on Apr. 17, 2006 at 11:44 AM

posted by JeanaG on Apr. 17, 2006 at 2:46 PM

I think you did the right thing. The mom and the daughter may thank you later. Sometimes people can't receive anything that MIGHT POSSIBLY INDICATE that they could be doing something wrong! It sounds like you were discreet and far from rude. I do sympathize with the kids these days trying to find clothes that don't expose them! My daughter is 13, and we have a hard time finding things that are suitable. I think sometimes they aren't aware of what's happening, and they even get frustrated "What AM I supposed to wear?" This does not excuse immodesty though. The "Maidens of Virtue" book I wrote about discusses this subject and even gives some websites that carry more modest clothing.

posted by jacobsacademy on Apr. 17, 2006 at 4:34 PM

Touche`, Spunky!

Absolutely, positively you did the right thing - and more so how you reacted to the mother..........not so sure I would been able to hold my tongue........something to the affect of, "...oh, so you condone your daughter revealing her otherwise private anatomy to the public at large? Gosh, my mistake, I can see you're preparing her for potential employment after high school. You should be commended for such real world training.........."

See what I mean? You did so much better than me -

Sometimes, I just can't help myself - and I guess that's why the Lord knew who to "reveal" that poor girl to/in front of........

;-)
Harriette

posted by bwktbarr on Apr. 17, 2006 at 6:42 PM

Spunky, I think you did the right thing. I do think it's like having toilet paper on your shoe or something. But the clothing issue is so touchy nowadays, isn't it? I have been in situations where I saw the exact display you are talking about and just averted my eyes rather than help the person out, afraid that the person *meant* to have her pants on like that and would be upset.

Spunky, I know that with your beautiful spirit and conversation, eventually that family will figure out that you meant nothing by it, and may even thank you for it eventually.

It is very difficult to find appropriate clothing nowadays. I have taken to having my daughters raise their arms so I can see how long their shirts are before we go anywhere, because it's almost impossible to find a pair of jeans or capris that hit at the true waist anymore. We are buying shirts for the girls a couple of sizes big so the tail will cover their back ends in those awful pants. I've even threatened to go strictly to jumpers and dresses.

All of this clothing talk reminds me of a story my grandmother told about one of my dad's school teachers in the 1960's. The girls were wearing such little short skirts that she had curtains attached to the front of the desks in her classroom so no one would see their undies when they were sitting at their desks!

God bless,

Katie

posted by livin4Him6 on Apr. 17, 2006 at 7:01 PM

Another yes vote here!! :0)

posted by on Apr. 17, 2006 at 7:38 PM

Crack Kills!!!

That's become our mantra - and not so subtle way of letting others know when they're bearing too much!

Much Love,
Kerri

Edited by KerriHopkins on Apr. 17, 2006 at 4:39 PM

posted by spunkyhomeschool on Apr. 17, 2006 at 7:41 PM

Oh Kerri you made me blush when I read that! Do you say that to the young lady or just think it?

posted by nitrocat on Apr. 17, 2006 at 8:12 PM

I definately think that you did the right thing, Spunky, but for two added reasons:
1) Unless things have changed recently, exposing yourself in public is not only disgusting, but also illegal!
2) Regardless of the daughter's and mother's responses (the mother's response should have been proactive!) your action was in the interest of Everyone present-not to mention in God's House! I have seen people in a restaurant cheer when a brave soul has confronted a loud mouth, swearing individual. I see this the same way. You acted to protect that girl as well as the rest of the precious people being visually accosted. No apologies necessary (at least on your part!).

A dear lady that I once knew used to advise the young girls in our church-"If you're not going to sell, don't advertise!" Is it any wonder that so much sexual assault and date rape take place today? But don't get me started...
Stacy

posted by firechef6 on Apr. 17, 2006 at 11:38 PM

If I were in the same situation, I would have done the same thing. I do not where inappropriate attire, my husband and boys will tell me quickly if something I try on is not appropriate for a christian to where. A lady should dress as such, and you were right to tell her so.

posted by Leigh2 on Apr. 18, 2006 at 8:10 AM

I would have done the same thing. I had to deal with this issue recently with one of dh's cousins....in a public place. I looked over and realized that she was exposing her behind for all the world to see, and I mentioned to her that maybe she needed to put her sweater on so that it would cover her backside....she rolled her eyes at me, but did it anyway, at least. This was family, though...so it was a bit easier. Dh's family thinks that I am way too "prudish" as it is. Sigh.

posted by GenesisFamily on Apr. 18, 2006 at 9:53 PM

I believe you did the right thing. It is incredible to me what kids will wear to church these days!
We live in a small town / rural area, so it isn't as bad here, but my, when we go to some churches in the more metropolitan areas I am usually shocked by what the girls are wearing. I am sorry that this girl's mother doesn't seem care about her daughter's modesty or the effect her dress might have on the boys and men who come in contact with her.
Toni

posted by ByHisGraceInColorado on Apr. 22, 2006 at 3:24 AM

The same kind of situation just came up at a friend of mine's church, but it was a girl wearing a tube top! This girl is in "leadership." It is maddening, and saddening all at the same time. At a recent family event, my 7 and 11 year old boys were exposed to bare midriffs all day long, and the dears sporting them had no clue that they *might* be affecting these little one's minds and hearts.

Both my boys and girls just turn away when they see inappropriate clothing, which is EVERYWHERE. You can't get away from it. We expect better sense in churches, but it's not there. When the Lord got a hold of me, one of the first things He did was make me very aware of my neckline! He has a way of leading us in the right way----it just has to be Him. I know I probably would have been put off if somebody mentioned it, because I may not have accepted it, but when God revealed it to me (no pun intended) I knew my sin right away.

Keep praying for those who don't have a clue. God will work on their hearts and choices of clothing. The inside of the cup has to be cleaned up first.

And modest clothing is very easy to sew! My girls are doing a great job, and there are some young entrepreneurs out there making modest swimwear etc! Don't dispair, it is possible to dress modestly even if nothing in the stores is acceptable in the sight of the Lord. Homeschoolers are can-do kind of people.

Blessings friend,
Nancy

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