Steve Braun

Mar. 1, 2006 - Rich Dad Poor Dad - Part III

 

(Below is Part III of a three-part series on the book, Rich Dad Poor Dad, by Robert Kiyosaki with Sharon Lechter.  Click on these links to read Part I or Part II.)

 

Problem #4 - Kiyosaki's Many Other Fabrications

 

Time does not permit a thorough review of all of Kiyosaki's other exaggerations, half-truths, embellishments, and outright fabrications.  For a comprehensive list, check out John T. Reed's web page devoted to an analysis of Rich Dad Poor Dad from the perspective of a fellow real estate investor and promoter.  He covers the whole gamut of issues in fabulous detail.  There is also more information in SmartMoney magazine (Karma Chameleon by Eleanor Laise, February 2003, pages 97-103) and Money magazine (Poor Man's Prophet by Peter Carbonara, January 2003, pages 83-87).  Here, however, is my quick list:

Kiyosaki's Imagination:  "Sometimes I even start the company and take it public [i.e., an "initial public offering" or IPO]." (page 90)

In Reality:  SmartMoney was only able to get the name of one such company from Kiyosaki, "Yamana Resources [now Yamana Gold, Inc.], a gold exploration company that trades on the Toronto Stock Exchange.  And if he had anything to do with Yamana's IPO, that comes as a surprise to the company's founder and CEO, Victor Bradley.  Kiyosaki's only connection is that he owned shares of Platero Resources, a privately held mining exploration company that Yamana bought in 2001 -- six years after Yamana went public."

 

Kiyosaki's Imagination:  "I began writing it [Rich Dad Poor Dad] after my other book became a best seller..." (page 8)

In Reality:  Kiyosaki's only book before Rich Dad Poor Dad was not a best seller (If You Want to Be Rich & Happy, Don't Go to School published in 1992).  What book is he referring to?

Kiyosaki's Imagination:  "At the age of 9, I decided to listen to and learn from my rich dad about money.  In doing so, I chose not to listen to my poor dad, even though he was the one with all the college degrees." (page 17)

In Reality:  Reed makes an interesting observation about Kiyosaki's first book (If You Want to Be Rich & Happy, Don't Go to School published in 1992).  He notes that the 1992 book is "dedicated to Ralph H. Kiyosaki, former Superintendent of Education, State of Hawaii, the best teacher I ever had."  That's the man who would later become Poor Dad.  Reed goes on to tally 111 people in the acknowledgements section, none of whom appears to be the real Rich Dad.  How could Poor Dad, his natural father, be the best teacher he ever had in 1992 but not worth listening to by 1997?  Could it be that in 1992 Rich Dad had not yet been invented by Kiyosaki's active imagination?  (Side note, do we really want to exhort our children to follow the teachings of a man who chose not to listen to his own father, beginning at the age of 9?)

 

Kiyosaki's Imagination:  Throughout Rich Dad Poor Dad, Kiyosaki refers to various examples of real estate transactions where he made a killing.  Here he really went out on a limb because real estate transactions are public records.  For example, "I had sold a house for $60,000 that cost me $20,000.  The $40,000 was created from money in my asset column in the form of a promissory note from the buyer.  Total working time: five hours." (pages 116-117) 

In Reality:  SmartMoney and Reed have researched the public records and have not been able to turn up any evidence to support Kiyosaki's claims.  In the above example, SmartMoney caught Kiyosaki in a string of outright lies where the numbers in the book don't jive with the public records in Phoenix, Arizona.  SmartMoney writes, "nor could he provide any documentation of his own."

Kiyosaki's Imagination:  In Rich Dad Poor Dad, Kiyosaki leads you to believe that he made his fortune in real estate, with a little help from stock trading, and "retired" at age 47 (see pages 118-124).  He claims such examples are "actual and simple cases" on page 121.

In Reality:  As noted above, the public records do not support his real estate claims and there is ample reason to doubt his stock trading prowess too.  For example, notice how he completely embellished his connections to Yamana Resources, left some details out, and made others up.  Ironically, it is very likely that Kiyosaki's fortune was not made until Rich Dad Poor Dad became a best seller.  Before that he was just another hustler on the seminar circuit.

SmartMoney and Reed also analyzed information from Kiyosaki's other books, tapes, and seminars.  Their research casts doubt on many of Kiyosaki's claims regarding his educational background, his military service, experiences in the military, other business ventures, his claims of wealth, and even his claim to have been bankrupt and living in his car in 1985.

 

When all is said and done, Robert Kiyosaki does not come across as an honest, trustworthy man.  He does not even appear to be the real estate or stock market guru he imagines himself to be in his delusions of grandeur.  But let's give him credit for turning his inner "storytelling genius" into millions of dollars.  He has his reward in full. 

 

Scripture provides us with tools for evaluating the works of another.  Jesus said that we would "know them by their fruits" in Matthew 7:16-20.  Interestingly, He precedes this passage with this warning in verse 15, "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."  We also know that Jesus taught that the father of lies and deception is Satan and there is no truth in him (John 8:44).

 

You be the judge.  From where do Kiyosaki's tales and explanations proceed -- the Spirit of God or the father of lies?  What does Kiyosaki's fruit resemble -- the fruit of the Spirit or the deeds of the flesh?

 

Problem #5 - Kiyosaki's Bad Advice

 

Last but not least, there is much in Rich Dad Poor Dad that is just plain silly, wrong, illogical, illegal or some combination thereof.  Here is a small sampling.

 

The History Flunky

 

"Soon there will be such a horrifying gap between the rich and the poor that chaos will break out and another great civilization will collapse.  Great civilizations collapsed when the gap between the haves and havenots was too great.  America is on the same course, proving once again that history repeats itself, because we do not learn from history." (pages 47 and 48) 

 

Actually, it is Kiyosaki who does not learn from or know history.  I'm open to correction on this, but I cannot recall any great civilizations that have collapsed due to the "gap between the haves and the havenots."  Is he referring to the Sumerian, Babylonian, Persian, Egyptian, Assyrian, Greek, Roman, Indian, Incan, Mayan, Chinese, Japanese, British, Spanish, Soviet, or Western civilizations?  This is yet another example of a statement that sounds great but has zero substance or basis in reality.

 

The Economic Flunky

 

"Prices go up because of greed and fear caused by ignorance.  If schools taught people about money, there would be more money and lower prices..." (page 48)

 

Schools do teach about money, at least in an economics class.  But perhaps Kiyosaki wasn't paying any attention.  In a free economy, prices are determined by supply and demand, not "greed and fear caused by ignorance."  In addition, "more money" is actually inflationary (not deflationary as Kiyosaki implies) because there are more dollars chasing the same number of goods.

 

The Logic Flunky

 

One of Kiyosaki's supposedly profound observations is that your home is not an asset, but a liability.  The reason is that his definition of an asset is "something that puts money in [your] pocket." (page 61)

 

A home clearly does not put money in your pocket.  Even without a mortgage, it still costs you taxes, maintenance, and repairs.  Fair enough.  But since buying assets, instead of liabilities, is one of the key points in the book, you'd think Kiyosaki would provide some slick alternative to buying a home.  He doesn't.

 

So just where are people supposed to live?  The alternative is to rent, but that is just another form of a liability.  All Kiyosaki will say is that a young couple would be better off "starting an investment portfolio early on" (page 73) or buying "assets that will generate the cash flow to pay for the house" (page 74).  Sounds nice but either way it takes time to accomplish his advice and it doesn't solve the immediate problem of where to live in the meantime.  To recover from this idiocy, Kiyosaki then states, "I am not saying don't buy a house..."  Then what's the point?  He's just running in circles.  

 

A home is an asset.  A mortgage is a liability.  Your objective should be to maximize the value of your asset and minimize the impact of any liability.  Don't bite off more than you can chew when it comes to buying a home.  It's that simple.

 

The Accounting & Tax Flunky

 

In chapter five (pages 95-105), Kiyosaki sets forth the advantages of owning a corporation.  If you can wade through the mumbo-jumbo, you'll find "tax advantages" on page 104.  Here he makes some very odd and legally questionable statements.  What is even more amazing is that Kiyosaki's co-author, Sharon Lechter, is a CPA (certified public accountant)!  Based on what appears in this book, I would not let her do my income taxes even with the assistance of TurboTax.

Error #1:  "By owning your own corporation -- vacations are board meetings in Hawaii."

The Truth:  Vacations are not deductible expenses.  First, the primary purpose of the trip must be for business, not personal, and the expenses  must be ordinary and necessary.  Second, only that portion of the trip that is dedicated to business purposes is tax deductible.  Expenses that are personal, whether they be for activities, meals, hotel, or travel are not tax deductible.  Finally, expenses for accompanying family members who are not employees or officers of the corporation are not deductible at all.  (See IRS Publication 463: Travel, Entertainment, Gift, and Car Expenses)

Error #2:  "Car payments, insurance, repairs are company expenses."

The Truth:  Only that portion of such expenses that are business related can be deducted.  Expenses for personal use are excluded or must be attributed to the employee as personal income.  (See IRS Publication 463: Travel, Entertainment, Gift, and Car Expenses)

Error #3:  "Health club membership is a company expense."

The Truth:  Club memberships are never a deductible company expense.  (See IRS Publication 17 Chapter 28 and Publication 535: Business Expenses)

Error #4:  "Most restaurant meals are partial expenses."

The Truth:  This is only true if you are away from home overnight conducting business or entertaining a client and discussing or transacting business.  At that, only 50% of the meal is deductible so the net tax advantage is lost by the total expense.  (See IRS Publication 463: Travel, Entertainment, Gift, and Car Expenses)

Based on what we have already learned about Kiyosaki, it does not surprise me that he would advise pushing the envelope over the edge on tax issues.  I would expect much better judgement from Sharon Lechter as a CPA.  She wrote the following in the introduction on page 9, "For any accountants who read this book, suspend your academic book knowledge and open your mind to the theories Robert presents."  I guess Lechter also wants us to suspend adherence to federal tax laws too!  It is inexcusable for her to let such errors into a book which she co-authored, especially in her area of expertise.  But in the "age of Enron" I guess anything is possible from the accounting profession.  Given the above, plus all the other issues in Rich Dad Poor Dad, Lechter's credibility and trustworthiness rank right down there with Kiyosaki's.

 

The Securities Law Flunky

 

"There are forms of insider trading that are illegal, and there are forms of insider trading that are legal.  But either way, it's insider trading." (page 171)

 

As portrayed by Kiyosaki in Rich Dad Poor Dad, this statement is pure bunk.  The examples he cites are all clearly illegal insider trading as defined by law and applied by the Securities & Exchange Commission.  Again, Kiyosaki is just likely spinning yarns about his investment prowess or making empty statements to impress readers.

 

Humorous Irony

 

Kiyosaki generally disparages mutual fund investing (pages 77 and 78 contain a few examples). 

 

It's ironic, then, that Kiyosaki admires Peter Lynch, an icon of the mutual fund world as an outstanding investor and mutual fund manager, and quotes him several times in the book (page 152 is one example).

 

(Okay, that's a weak one.  It's probably only humorous to those of us in the financial services profession.)

 

The Relationship Flunky

 

"I have found that the principles of finding value are the same regardless if it's real estate, stocks, mutual funds, new companies, a new pet, a new home, a new spouse, or a bargain on laundry detergent." (page 190)

 

I'm sure every woman out there would just be thrilled to hear her husband lump her in with the laundry detergent or the family pet.  And just what does Kiyosaki mean by "a new spouse?"  Do you go looking for another one when your current spouse's "value" is diminished?  Do you trade spouses like stocks or flip 'em like hot properties?  Maybe it's this line of thinking that leads a man to choose to ignore his own father (Poor Dad) for another man (Rich Dad).  How pathetic!

 

Conclusion

 

On that note, it is time to end.  Like I stated at the beginning of Part I, there is so much material that it's hard to know where to begin.  That also means it's hard to know when to stop.  Frankly, Robert Kiyosaki and Rich Dad Poor Dad are so full of baloney that I've had my fill and don't want to go on.

 

Some of you may have already read Rich Dad Poor Dad and feel inspired to become more educated with your finances and alter your money habits.  That's great.  Follow up and take action.  There are many other resources, however, that are much better than Rich Dad Poor Dad from which you can learn.  They are superior in terms of biblical values, financial wisdom, and practical advice.  I encourage you to seek out those other resources and forget about Kiyosaki.

 

Others of you may already be fans of the entrepreneurial and real estate investing concepts portrayed by Kiyosaki in Rich Dad Poor Dad.  More power to you -- go start a business, invest in real estate, or build your residual income.  As noted above, there are much better resources out there for you too. 

 

Also keep in mind that it's a lot tougher in the real world than Kiyosaki and other "seminar hustlers" would have you believe.  It takes a lot of hard work and discipline to make any endeavor succeed.  A few make it big, others do okay, but most fall by the wayside.  I wish you the best.  Or as the apostle John wrote, "Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers." (III John 1:2, emphasis added)

 

I have often wondered, however, why these "seminar hustlers" don't just go out and rake in their millions actually doing what they teach, rather than schlepping their books, tapes, seminars, and "secret techniques" to everyone else.  After all, they generally claim that their systems are simple, easy, and lucrative, whether it's flipping real estate, trading stocks or options, creating internet businesses, generating residual income, etc.  Yeah, it's a snap all right!  Could it be that all they're really selling, like Kiyosaki, is just more books, tapes, and seminars that don't really have much value?  But that's a topic for another day.

 

If you are a Christian, you cannot ignore the unbiblical message of greed that permeates Rich Dad Poor Dad (or any other publication) and the questionable character and advice of Robert Kiyosaki and his co-author, Sharon Lechter (or anyone else).  Burying your head in the sand by claiming that the book "helps" or "inspires" you is not an option.  Instead, Scripture exhorts you to "not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (I John 4:1)  You should avoid seminars and other materials that teach "entrepreneurship" or other business techniques based on the principles and teachings of Kiyosaki.  Don't drink the serpent's venom.  To say "I'll take the good and leave the bad" or "I'll take the meat and spit out the bones" is not wise.  To the contrary, you will find in Scripture that bad corrupts good in every instance.  In the end you may well find the bones stuck in your throat and choking you to death.  Don't take the chance.

 

Go to God's word and study it.  Consider what I have written and pray about it.  I welcome your comments. 

 

 

Click on the links below to go back to...

 

Part I

  • Introduction
  • Problem #1 - Kiyosaki Mocks, Twists, & Contradicts Scripture

Part II

  • Problem #2 - Kiyosaki's New Age Background & Philosophy
  • Problem #3 - Rich Dad Does Not Exist

 

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• Post A Comment!

Mar. 1, 2006 - Cashflow

Posted by LaurieBluedorn
And don't bother buying his game Cashflow. We bought it some years ago on the advice of "experts" at a price tag of about $100. It's just a glorified Monopoly game. Laurie Bluedorn triviumpursuit.com/blog
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Mar. 2, 2006 - Reply to Laurie

Posted by stevebraun

Thanks for our input! Very timely too. I was able to point Phyllis to your insights about Cashflow because she asked about it in a comment under Part I. I don't have any experience with the game so your comment is very helpful. I wonder what others have concluded? Leave a comment if you have experience with the game (and you don't also happen to sell it for Kiyosaki).

I appreciate your encouragment. Keep up the good work at Trivium Pursuit!


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Mar. 2, 2006 - Thanks!

Posted by mommyx3
Thanks Steve, I really enjoyed this post. I haven't read the book, I've only heard about it through various media outlets. But over and over again I've heard it praised as such a valuable resource. I think Oprah once did a whole show on how wonderful this man and his book were. Not that I give much credence to everything Oprah thinks is praiseworthy, though it seems a great majority of people do.
I found it very refreshing to read an honest review of this book. Thanks for taking the time to inform!
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Mar. 2, 2006 - Reply to Mommyx3

Posted by stevebraun

Thanks for leaving your encouraging comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the review. Yes, it does seem everyone is on board the Rich Dad express these days -- the media, the church, etc. And lot's of these folks are making good money peddling Kiyosaki's wares. But like past fads, this one will run its course too. Hopefully sooner than later. Don't keep the truth a secret. Let others know that they don't have to buy into the conventional wisdom on this book.

God bless you.

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Mar. 3, 2006 - Rich Dad Con Man

Posted by Derek Spalla
Dear Steve,

Thank you for your articles about RDPD. Back in June of 2005, I played the CashFlow 101 game on computer with some family friends. As my brother-in-law so aptly put it, I got the bug.

After playing the game that day, I went out and bought the RDPD book. I never picked up on the subtle and not so subtle warpings of Scripture. To make a long story short, I purchased much of the RDPD material and even went through the 6 month course of Rich Dad Personal Coaching.

When I had finished the course God sent me a wake-up call. I allowed myself to be temporarily duped into embracing greed and believing it was righteousness. God has kept my family and I safe, protecting us through much of what we involved ourselves in from a money prespective. I have been trying for weeks to put into words why RDPD was wrong...your articles were able to do that for me.

Kind Regards,

Derek Spalla
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Mar. 3, 2006 - Reply to Derek

Posted by stevebraun

Well said from a man who knows better from having walked the walk with Kiyosaki. I find your testimony much more compelling than my analysis. Thankfully God brought you through the experience with your finances and family intact. I am interested in hearing more -- especially about that "wake up call" -- if you are willing to share. I think your experiences could help others and would make a great follow up post. There are a lot of Christians and homeschool families getting caught up in some screwy schemes to make lots of money real easy -- usually under the guise of "bringing dad home" by becoming wealthy enough to quit his job. Let me know if you're interested and we can exchange some emails.

On the other hand, I'm sure there are some who will claim success with Kiyosaki's methods. He's got some die-hard, fanatical followers out there. To me, the results are not the issue -- good or bad -- as much as the spirit of the whole thing and Kiyosaki's lack of credibility and character. The ends do not justify the means.

Thank you for your insightful comments.

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Mar. 5, 2006 - Not Listening to His Father

Posted by Anonymous
Steve,

I found your blog tonight and have been fascinated by your analysis of Kiyosaki.

To be fair, on page 17, Kiyosaki stated that he decided not to listen to his father about money. Although I find it really hard to believe a 9 year-old making such a decision.

I agree that Kiyosaki has made WAY more money from selling books and tapes than he has from actually doing what he preaches. I would like to know how many of his students actually did well following his strategies.

JLP
AllThingsFinancialBlog.com
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Mar. 6, 2006 - Reply to JLP

Posted by stevebraun

I appreciate your feedback and the link from your blog to this series. I trust your readers will find it as fascinating and valuable as you did.

You are correct that Kiyosaki states that he stopped listening to his father with respect to money. He does not indicate anywhere that he quit listening to his father about other topics. Yet, if true, I find it hard to believe that his disdain for his father in this one area did not impact their relationship in other areas. Afterall, money is the god and centeral focus of Kiyosaki's life. He does not respect anyone who takes a different view than his and that is made abundantly clear in the book.

My point is that Kiyosaki is not a good role model for our children because he chose to ignore his father -- whether just on the topic of money or otherwise.

On the other hand, there is not much point in us trying to sort out this issue. It's all fabricated! Kiyosaki never chose to listen to Rich Dad instead of Poor Dad about money because there never was a Rich Dad.

It would be interesting to hear from some success stories. I'm sure they're out there. People do make money in real estate. Even someone with modest success has probably far exceeded anything Kiyosaki ever did. His book is such a lie. But, as I noted previously, the results are not the issue -- good or bad -- as much as the spirit of the whole thing and Kiyosaki's lack of credibility and character. The ends do not justify the means.

Thanks again. I'll be stopping by to check out All Things Financial.

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Mar. 7, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by TOSPUBLISHER
I have not read the book, but have heard about it. Sounds like it has more than a few problems. Paul and I will have to check it out, from this review it does not sound good at all.
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Mar. 7, 2006 - Reply to TOSPUBLISHER

Posted by stevebraun

Thanks for reading and leaving your comment.

You are correct that it does "not sound good at all." It isn't good. I would expect no less of TOS than to "check it out" thoroughly given your fine reputation. What I have presented here is the tip of the iceberg. I can provide you and Paul with many other sources for further details. Make no mistake, the philosophies and values of Robert Kiyosaki are being transformed into entrepreneurship seminars, money camps, and "investing" schemes that are packaged to prey on Christian and homeschool audiences.

There's nothing wrong with being an entrepreneur (I highly recommend it having worked for 2 start-ups and founding my own business, in addition to spending time at the world's largest companies -- General Motors and DaimlerChrysler -- and participating in the tech boom and crash at Commerce One. What a ride!). I'm all for studying and understanding money and investing (that's my profession). Aside from learning good principles or skills (which some teach but others don't), we must look very closely at the values and philosophies being presented and examine them in light of God's word. As Christians, we should not be willing participants or promotors of those things which run contrary to the Bible and compromise our faith.

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Mar. 7, 2006 - You clarify what I felt

Posted by HomeschoolCPA
I do some public speaking on personal finance (I'm a CPA). I was flabergasted when at a church sponsored seminar on Teaching Your Children about Money, an attendee criticized me for NOT mentioning RDPD. It was if she assumed Mr. K's book was gospel and I was missing the obvious benefit it offered to parents! Instead I had mentioned many fine resources from Crown Financial Ministries and Focus on the Family. It really woke me up to the fad-following nature of today's church goers...

Thank you so much for your insight. But please don't be too hard on us CPAs. ("But in the "age of Enron" I guess anything is possible from the accounting profession.") It is a wide, diverse profession and there are CPAs who are good, bad and everything in between. Yes, I agree with you that the co-author asks too much of us CPAs to "
suspend your academic book knowledge and open your mind to the theories Robert presents". No, instead I will chose to "be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves" (One of my favorite verses for describing business dealings).

Great post. Thanks for the hard work and study. I'm going to link this on my blog ASAP.

Carol (CPA)
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Mar. 8, 2006 - Reply to Homeschool CPA

Posted by stevebraun

Thank you for your kind words and encouragement.

Yup, many Christians have been duped by Kiyosaki. I pray for their spiritual eyes to be opened on this issue just as I pray that my own blindness in other areas is made known to me. Thank God for His grace!

I didn't mean to bash the entire CPA profession. There are many good CPAs out there and I am grateful to have a knowledgable, Christian, homeschooling father and CPA do my business taxes. He is a good man and great friend. A good CPA is a real asset to any company. I am sure that you are a good one too. But Sharon Lechter represents the other side.

Keep up the good work. I appreciate the link to spread the word. Thanks!

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Mar. 8, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by TOSPUBLISHER
Spunky said something about you and her coming out this way....I think in May? Is that still happening? I know my husband would love to meet you; we could talk for hours I think. Our families are similar and have strong convictions about many things. I think that's why I consider Spunky such a good friend. We disagree on some things (not many actually) but remain total friends even through whatever disagreements. I have a great deal of respect for her. So if you guys come out, I think it'll be GREAT. Paul is in UK from the end of March til about the 2nd week in April; I think Spunky said May?
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Mar. 10, 2006 - Thank-you

Posted by Anonymous
Steve,

I just wanted to say Thank-you for your blog about Robert Kiyosaki's book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". I watched some media representation of him selling his ideas and wondered if they were legitimate. I decided to look into the matter and stumbled on your blog. Thank-you for using truth, to expose the truth. As a 20 year old woman trying to figure finances out, I am glad you wrote it.
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Mar. 13, 2006 - Great Work

Posted by Anonymous

Wow. That was very informative. I had some questions when I read the one book of his. After reading all the stuff you put together it's clear that this man is a complete deceiver. The one thing that really hit me as I read your work was that this man did the opposite of what the Bible tells us to do regarding our parents. We are to honor our father and mother. What could be less honoring that telling a million people that your father was a complete loser so that you had to rely on advice from an adult friend you met when you were a child yourself!!!

Great work.

Mark
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Mar. 13, 2006 - Exposing Kiyosaki

Posted by Anonymous

Thanks for your 3 part series on this guy. When I do watch television it’s usually PBS or another documentary oriented type station. I turned on the tube late last night and came upon this man plugging contributions for PBS. Within the first several minutes of listening to pleasing, non-specific information I concluded that this man was a charlatan. Vacuous, non-substantive cooing that went on and on. His wife Kim appeared and spit out the same song and dance routine her husband gave. I went online this morning to check Kiyosaki’s background and eventually came upon your blog.

Thanks for exposing this drone.

Michael
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Mar. 14, 2006 - Untitled Comment

Posted by mamaduso
Steve, you have a link in your sidebar that says children and finances. I wondered what advice you had on teaching children. But when I click on it it comes up blank. Our children receive an allowance but we haven't set up a saving/tithing model for them yet, although they have on their own chosen to bring money for tithing. We make sure to tell them "well done" for giving from their heart. We also have a natural saver and a natural spender. Again, well done on the article.
Susan
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Mar. 14, 2006 - Children & Finances

Posted by stevebraun

Susan - Good question. You're not the first to notice that it's blank. The problem is that I'm a one man show with my financial planning business. Between that, my family, and church I just haven't had time to get more material onto my blog. I will be adding material under that section in the future. All I can say at this point is to check in periodically.

Thank you for your encouragement on the Rich Dad Poor Dad review. I'm glad it helped. God bless you.

Steve

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Mar. 15, 2006 - Ranting? Check your own dogma

Posted by Anonymous
I have read the book and it has some very good advice. Whether or not it is fictitious is irrelevant to me. The principles are paramount. Kiyasaki elucidates several very simple concepts that make the difference between building wealth or enslaving oneself to the economic machinery of capitalist society. Your rants about his compatibility with Christian dogma borders on absurd. Remember kids, this book is about financial intelligence, not Christianity. I felt his note on how rich dad tithed and gave to charity was quite generous, even if it was fictitious. Check the book out at the library, eat the meat and spit out the bones, you can benefit from the wisdom included. And if you don't believe everything, it's OK. No one will come to collect your soul for wanting to understand how to use money in the real world.
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Mar. 15, 2006 - Reply to Ranting

Posted by
Ahh, the fanatical "true believers" of Kiyosaki have arrived! John Reed warns about them but I never thought they'd come to "rant" on my blog. Some folks can't handle the fact that the emperor has no clohtes and won't even admit it even when presented with the naked truth. Oh well. Emotion first, logic last.

There is little "financial intelligence" in Kiyosaki's books and even less that qualifies as "wisdom." But if you had paid any attention to my review, you'd have noticed that I started off by acknowledging what those positive items are. The sad part is that the rest of Kiyosaki's fable is seriously flawed and dangerous. The garbage isn't worth the little tidbits to be found. Sifting through the dumpster will yield edible food too, but it is hardly the best way to plan your meals.

What do you mean by "check your own dogma"? It should be crystal clear to any reader that I am a Christian and that this review was written toward Christians. There's nothing hidden here and nothing to check. I know where I'm coming from and so do my readers. What they don't know is where Kiyosaki is coming from and it turns out to be everything but Christian. That's important for a Christian to know. Sorry if you don't like it. And I suppose you have no dogma, do you?

If you aren't a Christian, then ignore my whole review. It isn't for you. If you want to follow the flawed advice of a liar and deceiver then be my guest. The few priniples that Kiyosaki gets right are hardly new or unique to him. He's merely repeating what others have said before and much of it doesn't work. There are better people to learn from -- Christian and non-Christian. What's more, there's no evidence that Kiyosaki has even succeeded at implementing any of his own advice. That's hardly a ringing endorsement to follow in his footsteps. But you do as you please.

If you are a Christian, then you are sadly very ignorant. It is your rant that is aburd. Everything in life is about God to a Christian. God is paramount, not principles. But even when it comes to principles, you are a fool if you put the economic ones ahead of the eternal, character ones.

There is nothing wrong with learning about money. I make my living helping Christian and non-Christian families handle their money and accomplish their financial goals. God wants us to have money and use it wisely. No big deal.

The Bible contains considerable wisdom for handling money "in the real world." There are also many Christian and secular writers who teach sound money skills that are very practical in this life, but not at the expense of eternal life. Kiyosaki is not one of them. He's not even close. He's not even in the game.

Ironically, it is you empowering and enslaving yourself to the "economic machinery of a capitalist society" by buying the amusing fables of Kiyosaki. You're making him rich so that he can lead his wealthy lifestyle on the backs of those looking for help but instead finding a cheap hustler and charlatan.

Maybe you can explain to everyone just how it is that property ownership, starting your own business, or investing in the stocks of small companies (as Kiyosaki teaches) is NOT capitalist? Your rant makes no sense except that it's clear you like Kiyosaki and what he teaches. The truth is irrelevant. Why not just say so and be done with it?



Edited by stevebraun on Mar. 15, 2006 at 11:13 AM
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Mar. 25, 2006 - Promote It As Fiction

Posted by Nate
Robert Kiyosaki so much to say about this guy.

THE BASICS:
There is NO rich Dad (reported by SmartMoney).
"The truth is that Kiyosaki, and those like him, can make far more money selling you their
'proven methods' than they ever could employing those methods themselves." (www.fool.com/news/commentary/2003/commentary030714me.htm)

THE DEFENSE:
"I feel that this book is so transformative that it should be required reading in every high school." Tony Cecala, a Phd in Psychology from Yale. (www.holisticnetworker.com/bookreviews/richdad.html)

Very interesting since Kiyosaki says education is a waste of time and even wrote the book on it: "If you wanna be rich & happy, don't go to school."

ETHICS:
How would you like to have graduated from 3 of the most prestigious schools in the country, earn a Phd, spend your whole life dedicated to education, only to have your son sell 11 million copies of a book telling people that you had wasted your life?

MY BACKGROUND:
Finance & Accounting with several professional designations. I'm not rich. I've had several friends buy into MLM's endorsed by Kiyosaki or who bought his books. Hopefully this book will soon be classified as Fiction.

MY ADVISE:
Become $10 richer by not buying his book.
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Apr. 13, 2006 - rich dad

Posted by Anonymous
I happened to see this blog in the midst of reading Rich Dad's guide to investing.I have earlier read Rich dad and Poor Dad and Cash flow Quadrant and ended up with the same confusion that these are going against the way and will of God and tieing all virtues of life just around money.
thank you for your eye opening clarifications.
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Apr. 16, 2006 - Better Resources?

Posted by Elizabeth
Dear Sir:
You state <>

Would you please help by giving the names of these "better resources?"

Many thanks,
Eizabeth Semple

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Apr. 16, 2006 - I knew there was something fishy...

Posted by Matthew 25
Honestly, I was inspired by this book. I even bought a copy for my Dad and another friend. I want to learn more about finance, real estate and investing...

However, one recurring theme I found in the book is "disrespect". It implies how to be a disrespectful employer and how to be a disrespectful employee. * I warned my dad and my friend about these things *

So I did a web search on the book and see what other Christians are saying about it. That's when I ran into your blog. It confirmed my suspicions and uncovered even more dirt that weren't so obvious.

Thank you.


Edited by stevebraun on Jun. 29, 2006 at 12:45 PM
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May. 19, 2006 - Kiyosaki's outright lies

Posted by Reese Loh
I have to agree that I find a lot of interesting tall tales in Kiyosaki's statement made in his book. As I was going through his book for my finance class paper, I can;t help but notice that he has failed to acknowledge the present value and future value nature of money. Even if his buying and selling of a 12-unit apartment building in Beaverton, Oregon is true (which I still have doubt over the validity of the transaction), I can't help but to do my own calculation. He purchased the building for $300,000 and sold it after two years for $450,000. Now assuming that he can get a return of 8% if he invest it in other form of investment, that selling price is only equivalent to $385,600 in present value. After minus the original buying price of $300,000, he only made $85,600 for the two years. Now, assuming that Kiyosaki actually rent the 12-units out, will $85,600 enough to cover all the expenses to maintain the property. We are talking about building maintenance, utilities, hiring people to run the lease for the units. Unless, Kiyosaki did all of those things on his own (which is not likely), I doubt that he made much money out of this particular investment. That from a real estate investment guru????
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Jun. 29, 2006 - Reply to Nate from 3/25

Posted by stevebraun

Well said. Fiction it is.

Steve
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Jun. 29, 2006 - Reply to Elizabeth Semple 4/16

Posted by stevebraun

For personal finances, I would encourage you to look at the materials offered by Crown Financial Ministries and/or Dave Ramsey. I cannot recommend real estate investing resources because I do not engage in this activity. However, I'm sure there are many good resources that teach the fundamental economics of real estate investing and how to do it without getting you all worked up in a greedy frenzy like RDPD.

Steve
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Jun. 29, 2006 - Reply to Matthew 25 from 4/16

Posted by stevebraun

I'd go back and tell your dad and friend to toss the book away.

Steve
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Oct. 15, 2006 - Kiyosaki and Jesus

Posted by Glen Fullmer
Kiyosaki can't save me, spiritually, but Jesus can and has. I am a Christian and try to follow Christ. However, isn't dismissing Kiyosaki's teaching about money for the reasons you state, like dismissing Jesus's teaching about the Kingdom of God because they are not of this world? Even Jesus in a parable says that "the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light".

Kiyosaki's teachings have save me and a lot of people like me financially. To name just a few:

Buy/Build Assets which put money in your pocket.
There is good debt, liabilities, expenses, assets, income.
There is bad debt, liabilities, expenses, assets, income.
The Rich don't work for money but have money work for them.
Let your Assets buy your Dodads.
Work to learn - Don't work for money.
Give Back.

However, I am not a blind follower of Kiyosaki. I question a lot of things he says in a number of different areas. However, what I know about him, he is a man of integrity. Mike, his friend and the son of Rich Dad exists and is not a figment of his imagination. I know that because Diane Kennedy, who I trust explictly, and whom we shared at one time as an accountant, has met him. Diane, even now, who is not currently associatied with him, vouches for his integrity about how he made is money. She should know as she has seen his financial statement for a number of years.

In regards to his gold mine, i have met one of other the founders of Mundoro Mining (MUN-T) and he tells me that Kiyosaki was one of the principles of that venture.

Kiyosaki is a Capitalist. I am a Capitalist. The United States is blessed with a Christian foundation. Ever wonder why there are more nations with a Christian tradition that are democratic, capitalistic, republics?

I believe that Jesus was rich, in the worldly sense, and there are scripture as secular records to suggest that.

Not only was He rich, but He wants us to be rich both spritually and financially.

I try to follow Him in gaining riches in a number of ways:

1. Christ believes in the "velocity of money". " Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal" and also an example of that was "Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." and then he tells the parable about the rich man that decided to eat, drink and be merry but then God took him that night. Another example of that is the parable of the Talents. He also doesn't want us to retire. That is what death is about!

2. At the same time He doesn't necessarily want us to have a job: "take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:" .. "consider the fowls of the air..." He feeds them.

3. He believes in us making mistakes and learning from them: "But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Of course, unlike some professing Christians that I have heard talk, you have to admit mistakes first. I assume that means financial mistakes as well. He doesn't want us to be "level 1" investors.

4. He wants us to be charitable: "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.", but it appears he wants us to do that personally and not by government mandate. I am not sure if he wants us to give to people exactly what they ask for all the time, but to give to them that ask. Just like He does. They ask for money, give them knowledge about making it. Money doesn't solve money problems. 10% is a good figure, but he doesn't want to pay "tithe" and ignore the weighty matters (judgement, mercy and faith).

5. He wants us to be wise investors and good stewards - Parable of the Talents. "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required:"

6. He wants us to have Faith in Him and in what He has in store for us: "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me."

So what do I do? Well the tithing side is none of your business because He says: "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men,...That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly."

However, I save. I invest. I make mistakes and usually learn from them. I don't have a job nor want one. I try to move my money as quickly as I can and be a good steward of it. I try not to make it the most important thing in my life.

I have been teaching a Junior Achievement Class recently in a traditional middle school. I am still amazed that if they teach the kids anything about money, it is the same matra that Kiyosaki talked against:

Stay in school
Get good grades
Get a good job

These might have worked in our parent's day, but not in ours.

Glen

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Oct. 15, 2006 - Reply to Glen Fullmer

Posted by stevebraun

To equate the dismissing of Jesus's teachings in His day with dismissing Kiyosaki's teachings in this day is ridiculous. By that rationale we might as well accept ANY teachings from anyone because we wouldn't want to trip over this principle. But no, the Bible teaches us to test the spirit and teaching of anyone and to reject that which is not from the spirit of Christ. I don't find the spirit of Kiyosaki's teaching to be godly, although he does stumble upon some good principles as I pointed out in my review.

Speaking of which, most of the principles you claim that Kiyosaki has taught you are found squarely in your Bible. You don't need Kiyosaki to teach you to avoid debt, be a wise investor, or give back.

Furthermore, as many others have already pointed out, Kiyosaki offers nothing in the practical realm but the same, tired, recycled advice of others -- essentially, invest in real estate. He's not covering new ground here. It just so happens that he made up a cute story to go along with it.

You say Kiyosaki is a man of integrity. Yet he has been less truthful when asked for details about his cute little story. Glen, does a man of integrity tell four different versions about the identity of Rich Dad to one reporter and then make up an entirely new story for a second reporter? To me, that is the sign of a man who knows he's been cornered in a lie and that there's no way out. A man of integrity would not leave any room for doubt because he would want to guard his integrity and protect his image. Only a man lacking in integrity would be so careless with the truth. Diane Kennedy, or whomever, can say what they want. It's irrelevant. When Kiyosaki has had the opportunity to go on record and answer questions honestly, he has chosen to do otherwise.

I don't quite get your reference to Mundoro Mining. It has nothing to do with what I wrote.

Also not quite sure about your references to being a capitalist. If it makes you feel better, I'm a capitalist too. And an entrepreneur. Kiyosaki has done an excellent job of exploiting our capitalist system by writing a series of books based on a fictional story. Congratulations to him. As I said, he has his reward. It just so happens that beyond that I don't think his advice is particularly worthwhile, some of it is crazy, some illegal, and the spirit of it is anti-Christian.

As for the rest of your comments, I think it is rather telling that you say, "I try to follow Him in gaining riches..." I hope this is not true, but it sounds like your aim is to gain riches and in that pursuit you "try" to follow Him. That's backwards. The riches should come as a by-product of following Him with your whole heart. The riches shouldn't be your focus.

God does want his people to be blessed and for some of us that may take the form of material wealth in excessive quantities. But for many others it may be less substantial or in a completely different form than money. Prosperity comes in many forms and means different things to different people. The prosperity gospel according to Kiyosaki (money wealth) plays well in the industrialized world but just try to preach it to the other 80% of the planet where making a living isn't quite as easy. It's a hollow message that offers no salvation in this world or the next.

Glad to hear you're working with kids in Junior Achievement. Keep up the good work! Hopefully you can share the Gospel of Christ with these kids too and give them a lasting education.
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Oct. 16, 2006 - Kiyosaki, taking a company public, integrity

Posted by Glen Fullmer

The reason that I wrote about Mundoro was because of your quote trying to discredit Kiyosaki:

"Kiyosaki's Imagination: "Sometimes I even start the company and take it public [i.e., an "initial public offering" or IPO]." (page 90)

[i.e., an "initial public offering" or IPO]." (page 90)

In Reality: SmartMoney was only able to get the name of one such company from Kiyosaki, "Yamana Resources [now Yamana Gold, Inc.], a gold exploration company that trades on the Toronto Stock Exchange. And if he had anything to do with Yamana's IPO, that comes as a surprise to the company's founder and CEO, Victor Bradley. Kiyosaki's only connection is that he owned shares of Platero Resources, a privately held mining exploration company that Yamana bought in 2001 -- six years after Yamana went public."

He took take a company public. I met one of the other founders of that company and he verified it.

You use Reed as one of your primary sources. He does a lot of name calling of a number of non-traditional experts in the field. You ought to check your sources.

You write:

"You say Kiyosaki is a man of integrity. Yet he has been less truthful when asked for details about his cute little story. Glen, does a man of integrity tell four different versions about the identity of Rich Dad to one reporter and then make up an entirely new story for a second reporter?"

He was evasive when asked, "Who was Rich Dad?", true. He never lied, but states that the reason that he is evasive is because of a promise to Mike and Rich Dad's family to protect their privacy. It really doesn't matter who Rich Dad is, as long as he existed and I have confirmation of that by a trusted source.

You write:

"To equate the dismissing of Jesus's teachings in His day with dismissing Kiyosaki's teachings in this day is ridiculous. By that rationale we might as well accept ANY teachings from anyone because we wouldn't want to trip over this principle."

What specifically about it is ridiculous? Jesus had a message that was not accepted by the traditional clergy of the day and Kiyosaki has a message that is not accepted by the traditional financial advisers of the day. Why do you think that is? One reason is because of power. The Pharisees wanted power over the people. Your traditional financial advisers want power over your money by selling you something that you don't need. Seems like a pretty good analogy. I agree that you have to check the spirit of any teaching to see if good or evil. As He says, "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." The mission of Kiyosaki's company is "To elevate the financial well being of humanity". He has been "fruitful" in that area. Can you say that about John Reed? Has Reed written a book with one of the biggest RE developers in the world? Mr. Reed is a thistle gatherer and you are a thistle gatherer promoter! ;-)

You write:

"You don't need Kiyosaki to teach you to avoid debt, be a wise investor, or give back."

Obviously you haven't read much of Kiyosaki or you wouldn't make that statement. Robert doesn't say avoid debt. He, like me, has tremendous debt. But he makes the distinction between good debt and bad debt.

I am a follower of Jesus. He was rich in all ways, including spiritually and financially. I agree with you that you should not seek riches for riches sake but first for the Kingdom and then riches will come. However, it is so much easier to serve ones fellow man when one is rich vs. being poor. Time is the greatest asset we have and to work for money is big waste. Kiyosaki and Jesus agree about that!

You write:

"Glad to hear you're working with kids in Junior Achievement. Keep up the good work! Hopefully you can share the Gospel of Christ with these kids too and give them a lasting education."

Unfortunately I have been expressly forbidden to share the Gospel of Christ with them. Another great reason for home schooling. However, I can share with them some of the principles of financial literacy which will provide them with the freedom to serve Him rather than money!

Glen
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Oct. 16, 2006 - Kiyosaki's Credibility, etc.

Posted by

Glen:

Okay, assume you are right about Mundoro Mining (I have no way to independently verify Kiyosaki's involvement or his role). So that's one company. Kiyosaki writes in Rich Dad Poor Dad as if this is a common event for him. Yet he couldn't name one other company besides Yamana when asked by SmartMoney. Doesn't that strike you as odd? Furthermore, Mundoro (MUN.TO) has only been publicly traded since about March of 2004. That's FIVE YEARS AFTER he wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad. So at the time of his writing the book and bragging about taking companies public, we still have no evidence that it was a true statement.

As far as Reed, I actually do not use him as a PRIMARY source. It's true that in Part III only (have you read Part I and II?) I referenced him for those who would like to read more, but I only used him as a source for three or four items. On several of those, SmartMoney came up with the same conclusion so I don't see a problem with this issue.

Regarding the identity of Rich Dad, Kiyosaki has lied, not just been evasive. Glen, go back and read his explanations to SmartMoney and Money. Those statements cannot all be true. It's one thing to be evasive, but an entirely different matter to lie. He is lying. If he simply wants to protect the man's identity, then all he has to do is say so and stick to his story. But he doesn't do that. Instead, he gets flustered and creates all sorts of goofy explanations. To me that is more like the behavior you'd expect from a man covering his tracks than from someone sticking to a promise to keep a person's identity secret.

You may trust your source on the identity of Rich Dad but I cannot have the same faith as you in this person. You appear to have access to better sources than do investigative reporters which I find hard to believe. If you KNOW that Rich Dad is real, then his identity is compromised. But you actually don't know his identity and must take someone else's word. That doesn't necessarily make it true. I have also wondered how a man (and now his son Mike) could own and run a multi-billion dollar empire and somehow escape Forbes list of the richest Americans. Between the lies Kiyosaki has told regarding the identity of Rich Dad and the many other inconsistencies surrounding this myth, I just don't buy it. I don't care what Kiyosaki's close associates have to say. In fact, I'd expect them to cover for him. Maybe they're just taking his word for it too. The circumstantial evidence (which is all the we have), however, is overwhelming that Rich Dad did not and does not exist.

I still think your analogy between Kiyosaki and Jesus is bad. First, Kiyosaki is not teaching anything new. Real estate investing and entrepreneurship have been around for a long time. As I said, Kiyosaki has merely created a myth to go with the advice. Second, I'm a traditional financial adviser but I don't sell anything (insurance, securities, mutual funds, etc.) and Kiyosaki does not threaten me. Many of my clients are entrepreneurs just as I am. Other than his general theme of real estate investing and thinking entrepreneurially, however, most of Kiyosaki's specific advice is just plain bad. What else can I say? Third, he is spiritually bankrupt. Kiyosaki twists Scripture backwards to fit his gospel of greed. The root of his philosophy is anti-Christian. Yes, he espouses some values that Christians also share, but the same could be said of most any religion. That doesn't mean we're all on the same team headed in the same direction. Fourth, you seem to measure Kiyosaki's fruit only by money. People read his book and make money, so that's a good fruit. Wrong standard my friend. Jesus never talked about the fruit in a person's life in terms of money made except in parables. And parables are tools only meant to take a known example (making money in the case of the talents) to teach a greater, lesser-known or misunderstood spiritual principle. By that measure we can extol Bill Gates for sainthood because by developing his software he has made us all more productive and rich. Frankly, the spirit of Kiyosaki's message is one of greed. Pure and simple. It breeds greed in those who get hooked by it. His motto is more aptly revised: "To elevate MY financial well-being by dispensing bad advice and anti-Christian values cloaked in a mythological tale." Finally, I am not promoting or defending John Reed. I only used him as a source for a few points in my review. He has also done more research into Kiyosaki and his other books that my readers can judge for themselves.

Generally, in Rich Dad Poor Dad Kiyosaki is teaching people to avoid debt, particularly consumer debt. That is what I was referring to. Yes, he does talk about good debt and bad debt. Interestingly, the Bible does not make such a distinction. It simply says that ALL debt is bad debt and unwise, though it is not prohibited. If you have large debts, then you are a large slave. Small debts are for a small slave. No debt is freedom. That's what the Bible says. It doesn't distinguish between good or bad debt.

Actually, Jesus never said working for money is a waste of time. The Bible does not teach that either. It is true that if your only reason for working is money, then you are making money an idol. Work is a means of God's provision and this is made very clear throughout Scripture. Work was instituted in the Garden of Eden before the Fall and God's mandate to work has continued since. Time is our most precious worldly asset yet God told man to spend some of that time working. Man was made to work. That doesn't mean we have to toil at a job all day, just that we are to be productive workers in whatever God leads us to do, whether that be an electrician or an instructor with Junior Achievement.

All in all, my opinion is that Kiyosaki serves Mammon rather than God. He is enslaved to it even though he doesn't have to work for it. He seeks fame, fortune, and the limelight. He has his reward. These are not the things that Jesus sought nor taught his followers to go after. For the Christian, there are much better resources to learn about money, starting with the Bible.

I appreciate this dialog, Glen. God bless you.


Edited by stevebraun on Oct. 16, 2006 at 12:18 PM
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Oct. 16, 2006 - Kiyosaki, Mundoro, Integrity and Due Dilligence

Posted by Glen Fullmer
Steve,

You write:

"Okay, assume you are right about Mundoro Mining (I have no way to independently verify Kiyosaki's involvement or his role). So that's one company. Kiyosaki writes in Rich Dad Poor Dad as if this is a common event for him. Yet he couldn't name one other company besides Yamana when asked by SmartMoney. Doesn't that strike you as odd? Furthermore, Mundoro (MUN.TO) has only been publicly traded since about March of 2004. That's FIVE YEARS after he wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad. So at the time of his writing the book and bragging about taking companies public, we still have no evidence that it was a true statement."

You do have a way of independently verifying Kiyosaki's role. Do a google on Mundoro and Kiyosaki. One of the first things that pop up is:

http://www.mundoro.com/corpinfo/2003-prospectus.pdf

Looking at the document you see that he was a director in 1997 and he published RDPD in 1997. As the only reference in RDPD about taking a company public is "So my stock buys are usually of small companies, and sometimes I even start the company and take it public", he is consistant and you and the sources for your references didn't even have the wherewithal to use the Internet in your search. You first had an opinion and then tried to justify it by quoting Reed and other thistle gatherers.

Then if you or Reed are interested in his and his wife's real estate deals look up Redford LLP on the Maricopa County Recorder's web site (http://recorder.maricopa.gov/recdocdata). More than 18 transactions. Then if you look up Kiyosaki (Kim and Robert) they have almost 200 transactions. Reed says they don't do real estate deals. This doesn't count all their other LLPs and LLCs created for asset protection like "Sweetie K, LLC"! I like that name! Come on, if you are going to accuse the guy, at least do your due diligence.

I am amazed by people who have a 9-5 job and say that the rich are greedy and only care about money, but then they sacrifice most of their life at a job they don't like earning it. Financial freedom via asset creation and purchase has a price but it is paid only once and not every day.

Jesus says "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?". I think that Kiyosaki is more consistent with this teaching than his counter parts who are saying "go to school, get good grades, get a good job with great benefits". Notice RKs company's mission is elevate the financial well being of humanity. As RK says, "the rich don't work for money, but have money work for them". Which group do you want to be in? Which, if you are a good steward of your worldly goods, does your Father in Heaven want you to be in? Poverty, both spiritually and financially, was never a virtue. Poverty is only not a sin if God wants you to be so. For most people, He wants us to be happy and to live abundantly. It is a virtue to admit that you are poor but only so you can change. The "poor in spirit" are only blessed if they come unto Him!

Glen
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Oct. 16, 2006 - Kiyosaki and Mundoro

Posted by
Glen:

My point remains. In 1997 Kiyosaki writes as if he HAS already taken companies public. Yet your example is from 2003. At best you can say he was dreaming ahead to the day when Mundoro would go public, but that's a far cry from having ALREADY done it. He makes it sound like this type of activity is why he's already so rich and "retired" in 1997 when, as far as the evidence suggests, he had never been involved with taking a company public until 2004 (when Mundoro did go public). The fact is it appears he was lying in 1997 when he wrote the book unless Kiyosaki can come up with another example.

But apparently such an example does not exist because it's even more perplexing that when asked by SmartMoney (probably in late 2002 or early 2003), Kiyosaki didn't mention Mundoro at all even though it appears he was clearly involved. Why would he cite another company (Yamana) when he had NOTHING to do with that company going public? Why would a man make a clearly false claim about Yamana when asked by SmartMoney if he had a perfectly legitimate answer (Mundoro) to give, especially when the interview took place so close to the time Mundoro went public? Doesn't that raise any red flags in your mind? Why the need to lie or stretch the truth?

I will look further into the real estate deals. Yet it is odd that Kiyosaki himself could not point SmartMoney or Money toward ANYTHING to substantiate his claims about real estate. Forget Reed. Throw out anything he says as far as I'm concerned. Again, I used very little of his material. You can quit bringing him up as if using his name alone makes your case. Most of my post was based on my own analysis and the stuff from the SmartMoney article. Have you read the SmartMoney or Money articles? I'll gladly fax you a copy of each. SmartMoney and Money were not out on a thistle mission. It was Kiyosaki you made himself look like an idiot in those interviews by his inability to provide even basic information. And as I noted, SmartMoney caught him red-handed in a lie about the one transaction I summarized as the third item under "Kiyosaki's imagination" in Part III. Strangely Kiyosaki permitted SmartMoney to go to press without correcting the record even though he was asked for the information to substantiate his claim in the book. But even if the real estate claims are all true, that does not negate the other 99% of what's wrong with Kiyosaki and RDPD from a Christian perspective.

Now let me correct something here. I don't have a 9-5 job nor did I ever say the rich are greedy or that they only care about money. For crying out loud, I have friends whose net worths exceed $10 million. (But don't anyone infer that's my net worth!) They are not greedy people. I only said that I believe that the spirit of Kiyosaki's message is greed. I believe greed is the source of his fictional works and his motivation for producing them. That is my opinion based on my analysis of Rich Dad Poor Dad. You have provided nothing to change my opinion.

For those who do have a 9-5 job, there is certainly nothing wrong with it. You imply that such a person is enslaved to money for some reason. That is not necessarily true. Working to put food on the table is not slavery. It is God's provision. To denigrate that provision is to demean God and His plan/will for His followers. Kiyosaki seems to take the perspective that such people are ignorant fools. Yet if that's what God desires for a person, who is Kiyosaki to criticize God's plan? Furthermore, you and Kiyosaki seem to assume that those working 9-5 are automatically poor. Well, I can tell you I've met quite a few who are very rich. Additionally, you also assume they hate their jobs. I can tell you many of them love their companies and their jobs. What's wrong with that? What matters is whether or not a person is following the Lord and doing His will. You can do that quite well as an employee and bring great glory to God.

Rich or poor, it does not matter which group I want to be in. What matters is whether or not I am about my Father's business. Am I doing God's will in my life? I'll let Him worry about whether doing His will makes me rich or poor. The Scripture makes it clear that my role as a Christian is to be content with whatever God brings my way. I don't really worry about the money, the next meal, or what I'm wearing. God provides it all and I am thankful for what He provides -- even if it isn't what my flesh would prefer. That's the point of the verse you quote. God doesn't mean go make yourself so rich that you can be independent of Him and not worry about what you eat or wear. The focus is on "take no thought" or as translated elsewhere, "do not be anxious." Why? Because He takes care of us and we can trust that He is working for our good whether we are surrounded by plenty or in great need.

I never said poverty is a virtue. Neither is being rich. You can be either one and be a Christian or on your way to the Toaster.

Contrary to your thoughts, I believe Kiyosaki DOES work for money. He is enslaved to it. He hustled all sorts of workshops, seminars, and New Age hocus-pocus for years before he created his clever Rich Dad myth. Then he struck it rich and realized his dreams of wealth. As I said, he has his reward. Congratulations. But the more he gets, the more he is wrapped up in it. I do pray that Jesus will set him free. What will it profit Kiyosaki to gain the whole world if he loses his soul? Unless He comes to Christ, his earthly kingdom will have come to naught. I pray that will not be the case.

Best Regards,

Steve


Edited by stevebraun on Oct. 17, 2006 at 6:12 AM
Permanent Link

Oct. 17, 2006 - Kiyosaki

Posted by Glen Fullmer

Steve,

You write:
"My point remains. In 1997 Kiyosaki writes as if he HAS already taken companies public. Yet your example is from 2003."

He alluded to what he might do. He made one statement in the whole book to that effect and you and Money Magazine and Smart Money (yes I have read both) make a big deal about it. They said he was not a real estate investor also, but have you done 200 RE transactions in less than a 5 year time frame? Have your written a book about RE investing with Donald Trump? I am reminded of "That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought" and "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again".

You write:
"Forget Reed. Throw out anything he says as far as I'm concerned."

Where do you think that Money and Smart Money got a lot of their ideas? They came close to quoting him word for word. I think that you, like them, haven't read much of RK, had an opinion and then found the evidence to support it. RDPD, in my opinion, is not RK's best work, but it was ground breaking or why would financial planners be so adamant against it? Have you read "Cash Flow Quadrant" or any of his other books?

You write:
" I believe greed is the source of his fictional works and his motivation for producing them."

After he sold his consulting company he was "out of the rat race". He didn't have to work. He claims that he wants "To elevate the financial well-being of humanity" and works towards that objective. You can still work hard and not for money. When a lucrative arrangement with Time/Life got in the way of that mission he terminated it. Not only is he a man of integrity but a man that has an admirable mission and is pursuing it.

You write:
"Furthermore, you and Kiyosaki seem to assume that those working 9-5 are automatically poor. Well, I can tell you I've met quite a few who are very rich."

Not at all. I know there are a lot of very rich people that have jobs. Oprah Winfrey comes to mind. There are a lot of people who appear rich, but are not. One of RK's contributions to financial literacy is the pattern of cashflow for the rich, middle-class and poor. The pattern for the poor is they have one source of income, no assets (using RK's definition), and all income goes to expenses. The pattern of the middle-class is they usually have one source of income, have a few dead or slow moving assets, and have a tremendous amount of liabilities that they think are assets. The pattern of the rich is that they have many sources of passive income, Ophrah does, have very many assets, and hardly no liabilities (using RK's definition) You can have the pattern of the cashflow of the poor and be making a million of dollars a year. I have renters who are making $30k a month and yet have a very hard time coming up with $10k for a down payment for a house! Are they rich? To some maybe, but to RK they have the cash flow pattern of the poor. In all my financial education, I never heard that before I read RK so for one person he is accomplishing his mission. What do you traditional financial planners teach their clients in that regard?

You write:
"Rich or poor, it does not matter which group I want to be in. What matters is whether or not I am about my Father's business. Am I doing God's will in my life? I'll let Him worry about whether doing His will makes me rich or poor."

I agree. However, if you go to a job you hate, spend more than you earn, buy dodads you think are assets and have the ability to change your situation by a couple of simple and boring techniques and don't, can you be doing God's will?

You write:
"What will it profit Kiyosaki to gain the whole world if he loses his soul? Unless He comes to Christ, his earthly kingdom will have come to naught. I pray that will not be the case."

His mission is not to gain the whole world. His mission is to raise the financial well-being of it and for that he is being blessed and blessing others like me. I appreciate that. There are greedy rich people, but most of the very wealthy (billionaires) that I have met are not greedy. I believe he is one of them.

Glen
Permanent Link

Oct. 21, 2006 - More on Kiyosaki

Posted by
Glen:

You are entirely speculating that Kiyosaki was referring to what "he might do" with taking a company public in the future. That might be plausible if he had alluded to something coming within a year or two, but 6 years out is a huge stretch. Besides, his reference makes it sound like he was an old hand at it and that it was a common strategy of his. Admit it Glen, Kiyosaki was lying.

Speaking of lying, this is not an isolated incident with Kiyosaki. This is much more than "a word." Kiyosaki repeatedly lies and stretches the bounds of credibility. It is a pattern of behavior, not a slip of the tongue (or pen in this case). In terms of judgement, I am perfectly willing to stand with the "same measure" applied to me. Have at it. Unlike fiction writers such as Kiyosaki, I am held to a very high standard of honesty by the regulators in my profession, by the marketplace, and by my clients. If I lied like this man, I'd have been out of business long ago.

It is irrelevant how many RE transactions Kiyosaki has done, presuming your numbers are correct. Transactions do not equate to success. You can trade stocks hundreds of times in a week, but that doesn't mean you're an intelligent trader or investor. Again, SmartMoney caught Kiyosaki in a BOLD FACED LIE about one real estate transaction which just seemed too good to be true. Being a man of integrity, as you claim, it would seem to me that Kiyosaki would vigorously defend himself against SmartMoney's conclusion if in fact he had evidence to substantiate his own version. But he didn't even offer a shred of credible evidence to them. He was content to let them go to press. Very strange.

Also, it is irrelevant that Kiyosaki has published a book with Trump. In one sense it is not surprising because Trump has long been known as an egotisical self-promoter. He's met a kindred spirit in Kiyosaki. On the other hand, it amazes me that Trump would lower himself to associate with Kiyosaki. (See my most recent post titled "Jonathan Clements on Kiyosaki")

It doesn't matter where SmartMoney or Money "got their ideas." They did their own investigating and interviewed Kiyosaki, which is much more than anything Reed has done as far as I can tell. As for me, I had no knowledge of Reed until long after I read RDPD and began my own review. I came across his information only because he was mentioned in an article. As I've repeated numerous times, there is very little of anything of Reed's that I have used. He is a non-factor.

I have read RDPD numerous times and some of Prophecy. I have purposely avoided the rest of Kiyosaki's works because RDPD was so bad. But it is a little disingenuous for you to suggest that I should introduce his other works when the purpose of my three-part series is to REVIEW RICH DAD POOR DAD. That's the topic.

Kiyosaki claims many things. You believe his mission is validated by his integrity. Yet I have shown that his integrity is very questionable. I noticed you dropped the subject about the existence of Rich Dad and why Kiyosaki has made up so many stories about him. Admit it. You know he has been telling lies. His statements cannot all be true and there is no justification for his behavior if his intent is merely to keep a secret. Likewise, his mission statement is just part of his schtick. It keeps him selling books and tapes and makes him sound generous and humble. Blah, blah, blah. It's not much different than a used car salesman claiming that his mission is to "help humanity obtain affordable transportation." Baloney. He wants to sell cars -- lots of them. Kiyosaki wants to sell books -- lots of them. Kiyosaki's mission statement is suspect because the man himself is not credible when it comes to being truthful.

I'm glad Rich Dad helped you. If you read through some of my other posts and the many comments accompanying my review of RDPD, however, you will see that there are many others for whom RDPD was simply an excuse to turn on the greed factor in their lives. Kiyosaki calls it a financial education. I call it greed. That's why it is so important for Christians to understand the spirit and root of Kiyosaki's work.

I can't speak for other financial planners, but what I teach clients about money is to avoid the very spending habits and debt structures that Kiyosaki is against. We agree on that. The only difference is that I have derived these principles from Scripture and common sense long before he created his myth. This stuff is no secret and can be easily divined from any consumer personal finance magazine if one is not inclined to read the Bible. It's basic stuff. But people get hooked on frivolous spending and consumer debt because we live in a consumeristic/consumption society that appeals directly to man's flesh. It is very difficult for people to resist without sound character and a vision for what else they can accomplish with their money. This is all taught and discussed with clients as well as in my public seminars.

As for other financial planners, you must remember that I am in a very different category than 99% of the ones out there. I am paid by the hour or a flat fee to provide objective financial advice to my clients. I don't sell products. I'm not married to stocks, bonds, insurance, etc. Investing in real estate is fine. Some of my clients do. Many others don't. It doesn't matter to me. I'm there to give advice on the issues they face and help them achieve their goals. So, your references to the financial profession vs. Kiyosaki just don't hold water with me. Save it for someone else.

You write:

"However, if you go to a job you hate, spend more than you earn, buy dodads you think are assets and have the ability to change your situation by a couple of simple and boring techniques and don't, can you be doing God's will?"

You can be doing God's will if you go to a job you hate. (Do you think Joseph loved being a slave in Egypt?) If God wants you in a particular job, and you hate that job, then it's YOUR attitude that needs to change, not the job. But your logic is flawed because the assumption is that a person who changes his situation "by a couple of simple and boring techniques" IS doing God's will. That may or may not be true.

On your last item, let me rephrase my earlier statement to fit your belief that Kiyosaki is out to benefit mankind, just for the sake of making my point:

"What will it profit Kiyosaki to 'raise the financial well-being' of the whole world if he loses his soul? Unless He comes to Christ, his earthly 'mission' will have come to naught. I pray that will not be the case."

But I don't believe his mission is so benign. RDPD is all about greed and filling Kiyosaki's pockets with money. There's nothing wrong with writers and entrepreneurs earning what the market bears. I'm a firm capitalist. All I'm asking is that Kiyosaki do it truthfully. Beyond that, I'm just letting Christians (or anyone else who cares) know what is at the root of his works and how he twists Scripture (along with securities law, tax law, and some other things).

Finally, Kiyosaki can't be one of the billionaires who aren't greedy. He's not a billionaire.

Best Regards.


Edited by stevebraun on Oct. 21, 2006 at 11:36 AM
Permanent Link

Oct. 25, 2006 - Kiyosaki

Posted by Glen Fullmer

Steve,

You write:

"Finally, Kiyosaki can't be one of the billionaires who aren't greedy. He's not a billionaire."

I was wrong here! You are right and I stand corrected. Mr. Kiyosaki is a multi-millionaire and Mr. Trump a multi-billionaire. My point was that most of the wealthy people I have met, Steve Jobs, Robert Kiyosaki, etc are not greedy. They know it is financial wise not to be so. Even the richest man in the world gives, through his foundation, more than a million dollars a day to charity. You might not like their motives, but some of them are changing the world for the better.

You write:

"You are entirely speculating that Kiyosaki was referring to what "he might do" with taking a company public in the future. That might be plausible if he had alluded to something coming within a year or two, but 6 years out is a huge stretch."

Do you know how long it takes to take a company public, even in Canada, especially with a Chinese company? I see no lie here.

You write:

"It is irrelevant how many RE transactions Kiyosaki has done, presuming your numbers are correct. Transactions do not equate to success."

True, but to claim, like some of the sources that you quote do, that Kiyosaki doesn't invest in real estate and has made all his money selling books and tapes, is a "lie" and I was just showing a counter example.

You write:

"Again, SmartMoney caught Kiyosaki in a BOLD FACED LIE about one real estate transaction which just seemed too good to be true."

If I recall correctly they didn't catch him in a "Bold Faced Lie" but were unable to substantiate that transaction. Knowing the Maricopa County record system as well as I do, even if you knew the date, learning the amount paid is not trivial. I would ask your sources, SmartMoney and Mr. Reed if they went through all of Robert and Kim's 200 transactions looking for that one transaction?

You write:

"Being a man of integrity, as you claim, it would seem to me that Kiyosaki would vigorously defend himself against SmartMoney's conclusion if in fact he had evidence to substantiate his own version. But he didn't even offer a shred of credible evidence to them. He was content to let them go to press. Very strange."

Really? There was once a man who sat accused before a tribunal that could recommend him to death, and when asked to defend himself, he said nothing but a simple statement of a future event. Your current day "reporters" for magazines who get their advertising from mutual fund companies and other paper assets entities would of course condemn a man who wasn't hyping their hype are like a financial Sanhedrin.

You write:

"Also, it is irrelevant that Kiyosaki has published a book with Trump. In one sense it is not surprising because Trump has long been known as an egotistical self-promoter. He's met a kindred spirit in Kiyosaki."

Really? Is it because they are both successful RE investors that you condemn them or because they are egotistical? I think it is very relevant that Trump, a very successful RE investor, would link up with Kiyosaki. Maybe he knows something you don't?

You write:

"It doesn't matter where SmartMoney or Money "got their ideas." They did their own investigating and interviewed Kiyosaki, which is much more than anything Reed has done as far as I can tell."

It doesn't matter where they got their ideas? How do you know they did their own investigating? Their verbage is almost word-for-word from Reed's blog. Doesn't that tell you something?

You write:

"Kiyosaki claims many things. You believe his mission is validated by his integrity. Yet I have shown that his integrity is very questionable."

I don't think you have, especially if you have been using sources that I have shown to have not done their homework.

You write:

"I noticed you dropped the subject about the existence of Rich Dad and why Kiyosaki has made up so many stories about him. Admit it. You know he has been telling lies."

Besides being a financial planner are you also a mind-reader? No, I still believe that there was a Rich Dad and I told you the reason for my belief. Do I have to repeat myself? I have also read Kiyosaki's statements, including his Harry Potter quote, about Rich Dad and none of them said there was no Rich Dad.

You write:

"...whom RDPD was simply an excuse to turn on the greed factor"

Can you be more specific about what you mean by "greed factor"? Am I "greedy" for wanting to be financial free? Are you "greedy" for wanting the same for your clients? Are you and I greedy for being capitalists? Please define your terms.

You write:

"The only difference is that I have derived these principles from Scripture".

So do you teach your clients not to accept usury or to require it when they loan money? ;-)

You write:

"As for other financial planners, you must remember that I am in a very different category than 99% of the ones out there. I am paid by the hour..."

I appreciate that and am glad you are ethical in that regard. However, if 99% of your profession is dependent on commissions from things they sell, you must admit they have an "ax to grind" in the case of Kiyosaki. Tell me, do you recommend real estate as an investment vehicle? Ever wonder why most "financial" rags don't?

You write:

"You can be doing God's will if you go to a job you hate. (Do you think Joseph loved being a slave in Egypt?)"

I don't think he had much choice! Thank God for Judah's intervention, at least his brothers got some money out of the deal or the Exodus might not have been written. ;-)

My point is that God wants us to be learn, be happy. That is why we are here on earth. He doesn't, in most cases, want us to waste our most valuable asset, time, doing something we hate.

Instead of worrying about Kiyosaki's soul or mine for that matter, why don't you worry about yours and if your clients are paying you to do so, theirs? I pray that you might do your homework before you condemn the man and if you do find something that is incorrect in his teaching or principles to let us know. I will keep an open mind. Also, I would highly recommend reading "The Cashflow Quadrant" in your quest for the truth.

Sincerely,
Glen
Permanent Link

Oct. 25, 2006 - Back and Forth

Posted by stevebraun
Glen:

I didn't say that Steve Jobs or Bill Gates are greedy. I didn't even say that the richest among us are greedy. I have nothing against "the rich." I only said that in Kiyosaki's case, I believe the root of his work and motivation is greed. We obviously disagree on this point.

Regarding taking companies public, we also interpret the situation differently. Still it is very odd that Kiyosaki could not name ANY other company than Yamana when pressed by SmartMoney. How is it that he was thinking 6 years into the future in 1997 but couldn't think 18 months into the future in late 2002? Instead he named an entirely different company that he had nothing to do with. He lied by taking credit for being involved in taking a company public (Yamana) that he didn't. C'mon Glen, you've got to see that his behavior on this point is very odd and does not reflect well on whatever integrity he has.

Not only could SmartMoney not find the data in the Maricopa records, neither could Kiyosaki. He was asked to back it up and couldn't/wouldn't. Funny that he could spout off the specifics in his book so clearly but suddenly couldn't find the data when asked about it later.

Your reference to Jesus being silent before His accusers only proves my point. He is the exception that proves the rule. From a human perspective, what He did was very strange indeed. He offered no defense when he very well could have. Yet this was appointed by God to be the case. The rest of humanity behaves differently. Kiyosaki is no Jesus. He offers evidence in many other instances (i.e., the Yamana lie, the Rich Dad exists lies, etc.) yet to say he remained silent in this one case like Christ is just absurd.

I do not "condemn" these men for being egotisical. I am egotisical. We all are to one degree or another. I was merely pointing out that Trump has a public reputation for being such a man -- self-promoter, big ego, etc. I believe Kiyosaki is the same and that is likely one reason they would put forth a useless book together. I don't believe it's because of wealth because Trump is many multiples richer than Kiyosaki and has participated in much "grander" projects.

Yet I believe Trump needs Kiyosaki. If Trump had put out a book by himself, it would have not garnered much attention because Trump is...Trump. He's sort of old hat even though he is still quite famous. Kiyosaki on the other hand is the newcomer (relative to Trump) with the hot hand. Plus he's a good storyteller. Why not team up in order to generate more buzz? From Kiyosaki's perspective, what could be better than hanging out with the big guys and hopefully adding some credibility to your name after building an empire based on a myth. It's a perfect marriage.

SmartMoney and Money, wherever they got their ideas, interviewed Kiyosaki. Reed did not. They gave him a clear opportunity to explain himself. He didn't/couldn't/wouldn't. Instead, he made himself look like an idiot. SmartMoney and Money also covered stuff that Reed does not. I don't see why it matters whether they got ideas from Reed or not. It was up to them to investigate any claims further. Ture, I do not have first-hand knowledge of their investigation but they claim to have done their due diligence. These magazines have never given me any reason to doubt their integrity when it comes to investigating and presenting facts.

Now, that doesn't mean they may not have biases. I have made similar claims because these publications accept so much advertising money from mutual fund and brokerage firms. Yet, I have read a number of articles where they have taken on bad practices in the mutual fund industry, including some of the advertisers, and also warned investors about he conflicts of interest that abound in the brokerage business. I have also read numerous articles in SmartMoney, Money, Kiplingers, etc. that deal with real estate investing. I do not consider them biased against it. True, these magazines are not devoted to real estate investing, but that doesn't mean they have an axe to grind with Kiyosaki.

Regarding Kiyosaki's integrity. Glen, if you can't see that Kiyosaki was lying about the identity of Rich Dad (even if he exists) and about Yamana, then we just aren't going to agree on much at all. You may be right that in some cases with real estate transactions SmartMoney didn't do its homework thoroughly or correctly, but that is much different than setting out to tell a lie. Kiyosaki has lied. SmartMoney does not have the luxury of lying with willful negligence (as Kiyosaki does) because they'll find themselves on the wrong end of a libel suit. They may get some things wrong from time to time, but it's not by design.

You're right, Kiyosaki never said there wasn't a Rich Dad. That's the point. He's only cooked up half a dozen conflicting stories about who Rich Dad really is. Those stories cannot all be true. Thus he is lying.

"Greed Factor" = A self-centered coveting or desire for more of something.

Greed usually leads to the exact opposite problem of the person who is ruiniously poor by his own bad behavior or lack of character. A greedy person seeks to have enough to avoid any dependence on God so that he can call his own shots without consulting God. A very poor person, particularly one in debt, cannot follow God's leading because he is enslaved to debt and restricted by his poverty. Greed is an opposite slavery to debt and poverty. Neither end is desireable.

Go back and read the comments/posts left by those who felt sucked into greed by Kiyosaki's book. It's not Kiyosaki's fault these folks let greed take root, but he was planting the seeds in my opinion.

Regarding real estate investments and how I advise clients. I am not a real estate investor because I am not knowledgeable in that area outside of REITs, etc. Therefore, I do not advise others to seek out specific opportunities to own rental properties, raw land, etc. That's not my forte. I can't specialize in everything. However, for clients who are involved in real estate then that becomes part of their overall plan. They are the experts in selecting such investments so they continue to run that part of the ship. Some of them are sitting on $ millions in land while others will use rental income to fund part of their retirement. It doesn't matter to me. My job is to help my clients succeed no matter what their investment tastes. But not everything involved in financial planning centers around real estate investment either. There's plenty that they need me for. That's why I say real estate or Kiyosaki do not threaten me.

As for souls, I do not worry about mine as I have security in the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I do worry about my non-Christian clients and pray for them often. Likewise, I do have a concern for Kiyosaki's soul.

You are right that God does not want us to waste our time. I consider reading Kiyosaki a waste of time AND a waste of my spirit's sensitivities to the things of God.

I have done my homework and amply demonstrated that Kiyosaki's writings are anti-Christian, however lofty his supposed mission. Whether his techniques for generating wealth work or not, there are many other ways to learn those techniques without having to wade through his New Age garbage and some of the other bad advice he offers. Just open your Bible, read it, and apply it. A person doesn't have to drink the spirit of greed to be wealthy.

Best Regards,

Steve
Permanent Link

Oct. 27, 2006 - Kiyosaki's Financial Teachings

Posted by Glen Fullmer

Steve,

You write:

"I have done my homework and amply demonstrated that Kiyosaki's writings are anti-Christian, however lofty his supposed mission. Whether his techniques for generating wealth work or not, there are many other ways to learn those techniques without having to wade through his New Age garbage and some of the other bad advice he offers. Just open your Bible, read it, and apply it. A person doesn't have to drink the spirit of greed to be wealthy."

You never answered the question about usury. Do you tell your clients not to borrow or loan money with interest? I thought you followed the Bible when it came to advising your clients! ;-)

Which quotes from Kiyosaki's writing are anti-Christian? They might not be pro-Christian, but remember he isn't famous for being a professing Christian. I think he was raised Catholic, but what does his religious belief have to do whether or not he is giving good FINANCIAL advise? Do you read other financial books written by non-professing Christians?

I have been reading his recent book "Why We Want You to be Rich" that he wrote with Donald Trump. It is a good read and I would highly recommend it, especially if you believe that Government will not be able to provide Medicare and Social Security in the not too distant future. One of their premises is that the middle class will shrink and they want Americans to be prepared for that transition.

"New Age garbage"? What are you talking about? Do you want to give us a quote from Rich Dad Poor Dad? Your quote about the Japanese powers - the power of the sword, the jewel and the mirror is not New Age garbage but a very old Japanese saying that he got from his dad. Remember he and his dad's ancestry is Japanese!

Perhaps it might be wise to enumerate his financial teaching and then you can respond to them, instead to his religious beliefs. Starting with Rich Dad, Poor Dad's Six lessons:

1. The rich don't work for money.
a. They work to build/buy assets so that money works for them instead.
b. RK's definition - Assets put money in your pocket. Liabilities take money out.
c. Buy your dodads with cash flow from your assets.
d. Wealth is measured in time and not in money - he got that from Bucky Fuller.
e. Depending on a job for financial stability in this day and age is risky.

2. Financial literacy is important.
a. A financial statement is as important for a person as it is for a business.
b. The cash flow pattern in a financial statement of the rich, middle-class, and poor.
c. The three piggy banks - "I Invest", "I Save" and "I Give"
d. It is not how much money you make but how much money you keep.
e. The rich buy assets, the middle-class and poor acquire liabilities.
f. The cash flow of an asset and the cash flow of a liability.
g. A financial statement tells a story.
h. Money doesn't solve money problems.
i. Your house is not an asset but your mortgage company's asset.

3. Mind your own business.
a. One way to acquire assets is to build a business.
b. He defines a "business" as one you can walk away from for a
year and come back and having it working as well or better.
c. A business is a system and leverages other people's time.
d. Your profession is different than your business.
e. Most of the rich made their money in business or real estate.

4. The History and Power of the Corporation.
a. There are tax advantages to incorporate.
b. There are legal liability advantages in incorporation.

5. The rich invent money.
a. Money is an idea.
b. An example: building a company and taking it public.
c. Another example: Buying 200 acres, dividing it into 4 parcels and selling 3
to pay for the original 200 acres.

6. Work to learn - don't work for money.
a. Pick those jobs where the knowledge you gain can be used in a business you start.
b. Most people need only a couple of additional skills to be great.
c. Get to know a little about a lot.
d. Learning is more important than security.
e. For a business sales and leadership are very important.

Anyway, there are more and I have might have mixed some of them up from other of Kiyosaki's writing, but I think these are enough to start a discussion. Maybe this is old hat for you and you give your clients all the above information, but for me it was financially life transforming.

Glen
Permanent Link

Oct. 29, 2006 - Reply to Glen

Posted by stevebraun

Glen:

Usury. As I understand it, the original Biblical prohibition was against lending at interest from one Jew to another. Applied in the New Testament this would mean to another believer. I do not recommend to my clients that they loan to or borrow money from any individuals. At times I do recommend they loan money to corporations or government institutions but that is much different. As far as taking on debt, I generally do not recommend it. However, the Bible does not say that a person should not borrow. It merely says it is unwise. At times, borrowing is the lesser of several evils a client may face and may be the best alternative.

You write:

"Which quotes from Kiyosaki's writing are anti-Christian?"

Go back and read Part I and Part II of my review. The answers are clearly documented there.

Kiyosaki's religious beliefs do play a part in his writings. The fact that he is off base with respect to Christianity should concern any Christian.

I have read financial books by non-Christians. Yet, it is entirely possible to teach financial facts (time value of money, etc.) without getting into religious themes or appealing to greed. Kiyosaki is teaching the false religion of Mammon and greed.

Kiyosaki can teach all the financial stuff in his books without the Rich Dad myth, without twisting the Bible, and without appealing to greed. But he did the opposite.

That's my opinion based on a review of the book. You may disagree.

New Age garbage. Kiyosaki's ethnic background and the origin of the "mirror" saying don't matter. It's baloney as well as much of his other stuff. Kiyosaki teaches to look inward, Jesus said to look upward. Go back and read Part I and Part II of my review.

Glen, you seem to fixate on the financial teaching and completely ignore the spiritual teaching of Kiyosaki. My review is the opposite. I am not here to do a review of his financial teaching. I consider the spiritual teaching infinitely more important and potentially damaging. Plenty of others have reviewed his financial teaching and more than a few have found it to be fairly simplistic and useless. Others think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. In my review, I acknowledged the few good points I felt Kiyosaki brought out. I also mentioned some bad parts of his financial teaching. But due to his wacky spiritual message of greed, I do not believe that the book is worth reading or that Kiyosaki is worth listening to.

Steve

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Nov. 1, 2006 - Kiosaki his non-Christian teachings

Posted by Glen Fullmer
Hi Steve,

We agree about the concept of usury from the Old Testament except for the fact that believers, from your definition, should not be paying usury to non-believers. However, Christ, in the parable of the talents chastises the wicked and slothful servant for not using usury to increase his one talent. Kiyosaki teaches the same thing: be a good and faithful steward with the talents (money) God has given you. They both want us to be investors and not savers!

Let's see, you don't want to talk about Kiyosaki's teachings from a Financial perspective.
You call him a liar, but I have shown that you haven't done your homework.
Lastly you claim that he has gone into "religious themes" and appeals to greed.

You write:
"Go back and read Part I and Part II of my review. The answers are clearly documented there. "

I did and beyond the name calling I found only three references where you claim that Kiyosaki is un-Christian:

1. "The love of money is the root of all evil" and RD says the "lack of money is the root of much evil".
2. "The word becomes flesh" saying that Kiyosaki is comparing himself to Christ.
3. He is greedy and therefore not Christian.

You write:
"Kiyosaki can teach all the financial stuff in his books without the Rich Dad myth, without twisting the Bible, and without appealing to greed. But he did the opposite."

"Glen, you seem to fixate on the financial teaching and completely ignore the spiritual teaching of Kiyosaki. My review is the opposite. I am not here to do a review of his financial teaching."

But it is OK to call him a liar when you haven't done your homework? His book is about financial teachings and not about religion. First of all you make the assumption that Rich Dad is a myth. You have no evidence to back up your assumption whereas I have evidence that he did exist. Secondly you say he twists the Bible and appeals to greed. Let's address those issues if you aren't willing to address his financial teachings:

1. "The love of money is the root of all evil" and RD says the "lack of money is the root of much evil".

Would you disagree with Rich Dad's part of that statement? How many times have you read or know of people who have done stupid things (sinned or broke the law) because of a lack of money? The problem with the Bible verse is that "the love of" is often left off and "money is the root of all evil" taught. That teaching doesn't guide us into becoming good financial stewards. To me that is more harmful than Kiyosaki's statement.

2. "The word becomes flesh" saying that Kiyosaki is comparing himself to Christ.

That is baloney. One of his concepts is that "money is an idea" and once it is an idea to put "flesh" on it, it has to be written or spoken. However, this statement is not in "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" therefore it must be from one of your often quoted unreliable sources.

3. He is greedy and therefore not Christian.

You write:
"Kiyosaki's religious beliefs do play a part in his writings. The fact that he is off base with respect to Christianity should concern any Christian."

"I have read financial books by non-Christians. Yet, it is entirely possible to teach financial facts (time value of money, etc.) without getting into religious themes or appealing to greed. Kiyosaki is teaching the false religion of Mammon and greed."

That amazes me as Kiyosaki doesn't mention any religious themes as such. I don't think you parse other non-Christian books for Christian contradictions as you do Kiyosaki's. Only his beliefs. I agree that his beliefs that are off-base from Christianity should be questioned, however, you admit that you haven't read any other of Kiyosaki's works besides "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and I wonder if you have read all of Rich Dad Poor Dad and Rich Dad's explanation of greed.

Kiyosaki writes in RDPD:
"My rich dad would often say, "Poor people are more greedy than rich people." He would explain that if a person was rich, that person was providing something that other people wanted. In my life, over all these years, whenever I have felt needy or short of money or short of help, I simply went out or found in my heart what I wanted, and decided to give it first."

Also he writes:
"There are times when I have given and nothing has come back or what I have received is not what I wanted. But upon closer inspection and soul searching, I was often giving to receive in those instances, instead of giving to give."

Of course that is later in the book. Maybe you didn't get that far!

You write:
"But due to his wacky spiritual message of greed, I do not believe that the book is worth reading or that Kiyosaki is worth listening to.

One teaching from his book is that his "poor" father that bought a big house for himself and family was more "greedy" than his "rich" father-businessman who, by serving more people and building apartment houses, was less "greedy" and rewarded by God for so doing to the benefit of his renters and his family.

Regards,
Glen
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Nov. 14, 2006 - Confused

Posted by Anonymous
Using the logic of smart money and John Reed then Jesus must not of done any of the things said about him . After all I have no proof ?
I might also say that many of things that Jesus taught were around before Jesus was. Does that lessen his teachings ?
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Nov. 14, 2006 - More Kiyosaki

Posted by stevebraun
Glen:

Sorry to delay in responding but I've been taking care of business the past few weeks. Blogging is a small part of my very full life.

Once again, you have not shown that I have not done my homework nor have you demonstrated that Kiyosaki did not lie.

Since you read Part I and Part II, then it should be clear that Kiyosaki is twisitng the literal and spirtual meaning of Scripture. If you can't see that, then I don't know of any other way for you to see the truth.

Regarding Rich Dad's existence. I have used Kiyosaki's own words to show that he tells lies about Rich Dad. Based on that, it is my reasonable conclusion that Kiyosaki would only make up untrue stories becasue Rich Dad does not really exist. That is a reasonable conclusion. It doesn't "prove" it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it is reasonable. You, on the other hand, can only point to third party sources, who themselves are only pointing to other third party souces as justification for his existence. That is not "proof." It is faith. You believe he exists and I don't. You may trust those sources but I don't. We disagree and there is no point in debating it unless you intend to introduce new evidence that can be independently verified.

Regarding your points:

1. Yes, I disagree with Kiyosaki's statement. It is just as wrong for someone to twist this verse by adding words that Jesus NEVER said (i.e., "the lack of money") as it is for someone to leave out the words He DID say (i.e., "the love of money"). Kiyosaki's wrong does not amend for the wrongs of others. The verse should be taught in its entirety without adding or subtracting from Christ's words.

2. "The word becomes flesh" comes from a statement Kiyosaki made at a church seminar as quoted in the SmartMoney article. I have no reason to believe that the writer of this article would misquote Kiyosaki's statement. Do you have evidence that she did?

3. I parse all things that I read in light of the Bible, not just Kiyosaki. Check out my analysis and criticism of how fellow Christians treat bankruptcy, debt, and tithing in my post "Render Unto God and to VISA." I treat everyone the same way. Yes I have read all of RDPD -- 3 or 4 times through. I have only read one other book by Kiyosaki as I mentioned previously. Based on all I've read, I stand by my comments and I don't care to read more of his garbage. Remember, my review is about the book RDPD so I intentionally avoided getting into his other books. That's the nature of a book review.

Finally, your whole bit about the poor being greedy is just absurd. Not that the poor can't be greedy but this is just Kiyosaki's cover for his own greed. It suits him well to paint the rich as not greedy (because he has always been a hustler to make a fast buck and money is about all he's ever wanted in life) and to make the poor out to be the greedy villains. He even goes so far as to throw his own father under the bus in the process. Of course, the fictional Rich Dad is the selfless hero. What a disgrace!

Let's face it. You're a die-hard for Kiyosaki as you state on the Rich Dad forum. (Thanks for the link and increased traffic though I hold out little hope that my review will disuade any of your buddies from their fervent faith in Kiyosaki. Too bad.) You will defend him to the bitter end. My opinion is that you take that much too far and it clouds your judgement and spiritual discernment. I think you're way off base and you think I'm way off base. We aren't going to resolve this so I see no further need for us to go back and forth through these comments. I wish you well as you follow Christ.

Steve
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Nov. 14, 2006 - I am very disappointed

Posted by Anonymous
You guys just make me sick by bashing somebody based on someone elses fabrications. Why don't you look up who John T. Reed is before you trust his opinion. Plus, it is just that, his opinion, not yours. Why care what he thinks?
Another thing, everybody seems to have a serious flaw trying to connect the dots here. Why don't you use your God-given logical brain to think though these statements and see how they line up.
I think you all are just jealous that you aren't Robert Kiyosaki and that you are middle-class people looking for an excuse to blame another person for your own faults. God knows your hearts and what reward you will receive. Doesn't it say in the Bible not to judge others?

-Just my 2 cents

PS: This is coming from a Christian Homeschooler who is a Regional Debater and has been homeschooled for 11 years. If someone of your own fellowship has this to say, what is it to say that maybe he is right? Paul says something about not causing others to stumble in the Bible if I'm not mistaken. Am up for a discussion if anyone wants. E-mail: spiderman40672002@yahoo.com
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Nov. 14, 2006 - Reply to Confused

Posted by stevebraun
This blog is not the place for a discourse on the evidence for the Bible's veracity or the things written about Jesus. There are plenty of other resources that can help you with that. But suffice it to say that under your definition of "proof," then you can also eliminate from existence George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and anyone else beyond the immediate realm of the physical world. That's not a good operational definition because you lose all of history in the process.

The problem Kiyosaki runs into is that he can't verify anything about a person (Rich Dad) who supposedly exists in the here and now. That can be easily verified but for some reason no one can. A man who is worth billions and billions just simply can't be identified. Don't you find that odd? Heck, Kiyosaki can't even keep his story straight about Rich Dad. He has clearly lied because his statements cannot all be true. Furthermore, he has offered no evidence as to Rich Dad's existence beyond a man's voice (supposedly Rich Dad's son Mike) on the other end of a phone call. Sorry, that doesn't cut it in my book.

Also, teaching things that were around before does not lessen the teaching. I never said that. My point to Glen was that Kiyosaki was not into anything original in RDPD other than his myths about Rich Dad. So, given my other problems with Kiyosaki, I'm just saying you can get the same knowledge elsewhere without all of his added garbage -- because the economic material is NOT new.
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Nov. 15, 2006 - Reply to "Very Disappointed"

Posted by stevebraun
I am not relying on John Reed's opinion but have done my own review of RDPD. I quoted one thing from Reed and merely referred to his other work at the very end. And that's all you can focus on out of my entire 3-part review? Honestly, I don't really care what Reed thinks. Did you even read the entire review?

You make some wild accusations about jealousies, etc. that are totally unfounded. But for the record, I am glad that I am NOT RK. I'm happily married to my first wife and have 6 great kids. My wealth is my business but suffice it to say I don't "wish" for more. I run a successful business and can make more money anytime I want to. But that's not what my life's all about.

Excuse me, but after making your wild accusations and questioning others' motives, you have the audacity to bring up "judging" others? What a farce! You probably don't even know what that verse says. Go find it and read it in its complete context. You are misapplying it.

That brings me to my final point. Your comment leaves much to be desired. You are not doing the homeschooling community any favors by waving that credential and I'm amazed that you got anywhere in debate given what you've written here.
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Nov. 15, 2006 - Faith in RK ?

Posted by Spidey
Rk is not our spiritual leader. If your looking for one I think your looking in the wrong place. What do you think about Dave Ramsey ?

Where does that saying "your throwing out the baby with the bath water" come from ? Yes RK says a lot of things that have been said before. He managed to make a finace book that was a best seller for many many years running. He managed to get some important lessons to the masses, The masses seem to know have a clue about finances. Which maybe why everyone seems to just what a great posts you write and not offer much feedback.
Whats your experiences as a planner. Do people already know these lessons. Or is that one of the reasons you blog?

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Nov. 15, 2006 - Reply to Spidey

Posted by stevebraun
My spiritual leader is Jesus. I'm not looking for a spiritual leader.

Dave Ramsey is okay. I like what he teaches but he comes across as a little over the top for my tastes.

My experience has been that most people are clueless about money and finances. A smaller group know a few things in a few areas but can't put it all together. A very tiny group really have it together.

I blog because I like to write about financial issues that interest me. My goal is to help educate others to the extent they want to learn. And along the way I may gain some new insights or learn new things too.
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Nov. 20, 2006 - Did you really read it?

Posted by Glen Fullmer
Hi Steve,

You write:

"Once again, you have not shown that I have not done my homework nor have you demonstrated that Kiyosaki did not lie."

Have you looked at each of Kiyosaki's 200 recorded transactions? How can Smart Money come to the conclusion that his sell of a $60k house that he bought $20k is a lie if they haven't and even if they had, many County Records don't record price. To assume this was a lie because you or they can't find it in Maricopa County records is rather a rash conclusion, don't you think?

You ask me to demonstrate that Kiyosaki did not lie. It is impossible to prove a negative. I ask where he lied and you quote Reed and Smart Money. Smart Money didn't do their due diligence, and if you just quote them, then you are compounding your mistake and haven't done your due diligence.

You write:

"Regarding Rich Dad's existence. I have used Kiyosaki's own words to show that he tells lies about Rich Dad."

I have looked at all his statements, even the ones from Money and Smart Money, about Rich Dad and could not find one lie. Was he evasive? Yes? Can you please show me where he contradicts himself in a little clearer fashion?

You write:

"You, on the other hand, can only point to third party sources, who themselves are only pointing to other third party sources as justification for his existence."

Wrong, I have talked to his accountant, Diane Kennedy, who verifies the fact that Rich Dad did exist. She has been to his house and visited with RD's son. I trust her explicitly.

You write:

"That is not "proof." It is faith.

You are correct is it not proof, but it is evidence and better than your unreasonable conclusions from a negative assumption.

You write:

"1. Yes, I disagree with Kiyosaki's statement. It is just as wrong for someone to twist this verse by adding words that Jesus NEVER said (i.e., "the lack of money") as it is for someone to leave out the words He DID say (i.e., "the love of money"). Kiyosaki's wrong does not amend for the wrongs of others. The verse should be taught in its entirety without adding or subtracting from Christ's words."

He doesn't twist any of Jesus's words but the teaching of well meaning teachers who teach that the "money is the root of all evil" is wrong and he says so.

You write:

"2. "The word becomes flesh" comes from a statement Kiyosaki made at a church seminar as quoted in the SmartMoney article. I have no reason to believe that the writer of this article would misquote Kiyosaki's statement. Do you have evidence that she did?"

No, no evidence and I understood what he was saying, do you?

You write:

"Based on all I've read, I stand by my comments and I don't care to read more of his garbage. Remember, my review is about the book RDPD so I intentionally avoided getting into his other books."

Yet you quote second-hand sources outside of RDPD. You call RDPD garbage, but you are not willing to debate the financial side of the book. Isn't that the same as dismissing the Bible's spiritual message because it doesn't teach all aspects of finance?

You write:

"Finally, your whole bit about the poor being greedy is just absurd."

I agree. That is not my nor Kiyosaki's point. There are rich greedy people and there are poor greedy people. However, if you receive tremendous financial gains honestly that means you are providing goods or services that people want. RD's statement that to be ethically, morally and very financially rich you have to provide more services or better products than your competition for the betterment of mankind. That means you are not spending your gains on yourself but on investments for your and mankind's well-being. Good rich people are rich because they are not greedy and are investors. Bad poor people are poor because they are greedy and don't save nor invest. Some good poor people are poor because they don't save nor invest.

You write:

"...this is just Kiyosaki's cover for his own greed. It suits him well to paint the rich as not greedy (because he has always been a hustler to make a fast buck and money is about all he's ever wanted in life) and to make the poor out to be the greedy villains. He even goes so far as to throw his own father under the bus in the process. Of course, the fictional Rich Dad is the selfless hero. What a disgrace!"

Now I am questioning if you have read all of Rich Dad, Poor Dad. You must be referring to Reed's quote when talking about his relationship to his father. In RDPD, Kiyosaki talks about financial intelligence and not about making a fast buck. Also, it doesn't berate his "poor" dad, but talks about some great attributes of his real father. You comments show me that you haven't read his first book "If You Want To Be Rich, Don't Go To School" as it is a loving tribute to his real dad and an interesting solution to problems of public schools. I just re-read it recently and would highly recommend that all home-schoolers read it.

You write:

"Let's face it. You're a die-hard for Kiyosaki as you state on the Rich Dad forum. (Thanks for the link and increased traffic though I hold out little hope that my review will dissuade any of your buddies from their fervent faith in Kiyosaki. Too bad.)"

You are welcome for the traffic and if you had read some of my posts you see that I don't always defend him. In fact, like here, if something doesn't seem right I will dispute it. However, he has helped me tremendously in becoming financially free and I thank him for that. His ideas can change the financial well-being of the world. I wish we could have discussed them. And contrary to what some have written, they might not be new but they are unique and taught very little in the schools or homes of the poor and middle class.

You write:

"You will defend him to the bitter end."

No, only when I think he is being trashed unfairly. I am open to facts and conclusions based on those facts. Show me the facts that support your conclusions and I will change. However, from your blog I have only seen name calling and quotes from authors that don't do their homework.

"We aren't going to resolve this so I see no further need for us to go back and forth through these comments."

Probably true, especially if you are not going to discuss the financial principles of a FINANCIAL book.

In Christ,
Glen
My mother's novel -- http://www.alreadytoharvest.com
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Nov. 20, 2006 - Reply to Glen

Posted by
Regarding the transactions, SmartMoney did look in the records. That we agree on. We also agree they didn't find the data to match Kiyosaki's claims. So far so good. So they asked Kiyosaki to fill in the missing links and he couldn't/wouldn't. The article states this plainly. I call that due diligence and doing their homework. They didn't rely on Reed for this one. It's not their fault that Kiyosaki couldn't/wouldn't supply more info. They went to the source. Again, SmartMoney took that as far as they could without Kiyosaki's assistance. Surely, Kiyosaki could have easily pointed them in the right direction without much effort. It's odd to me that he didn't bother. I therefore don't believe SmartMoney reached a "rash" conclusion.

Clarity of contradicion about Rich Dad. Go back to Part II and read under item 3 that he claimed Rich Dad had died, then later said he was actually alive but a reclusive invalid, then claimed he was a "composite" of seven mentors. To another reporter he puts a man named "Mike" on the phone who says he's Rich Dad's son.

THESE STATEMENTS CANNOT ALL BE TRUE!!! THEREFORE AT LEAST ONE OF THEM IS A LIE.

If you can't see that, then you're not going to see anything.

Being evasivie is one thing. Lying is another. Kiyosaki lied. As I said before, if his intent was to protect RD's identity, as he stated in the book and the interviews, then he could have just stuck to his story. It's admirable. But he didn't. Why did he feel compelled to lie about it? The truth does not need a lie to defend it.

By the way, I am not wrong about the accountant. It is third party information from a third party based on what you stated. She's been to his house and met his son, but doesn't appear to have actually met the man based on what you state. Her belief is based on third party statements, not actual knowledge of the truth. Then she's passed that info along to you which is yet another step removed. That's still no proof to me, anymore than a reporter being put on the phone with "Mike." I believe it's a charade.

You call it evidence. I call it evidence too. It's just that when I couple this "evidence" with the fact that Kiyosaki has LIED about RD's identity in the past, that I conclude RD does not exist. You ignore the lying and conclude he does exist.

The philosophy "the lack of money..." is twisting a biblical principle. Again, if you can't see that, then you aren't going to see anything. Poor Dad actually was closer to the biblical truth in stating "the love of money..." Kiyosaki is promoting an anti-biblical philosophy by twisting Scripture.

We apparently interpret the "word becomes flesh" differently. I see it as an illegitimate claim that he's teaching biblical truth, given the context of where he was and to whom he was speaking. But he's not teaching biblical truth, even though he crosses paths with the truth here and there. You probably have another interpretation to say that he is. To each his own. We're unlikely to agree.

I'm not debating RDPD's financial side because the spiritual side is so lacking and anti-Christian. It wouldn't matter if he was 100% dead on with the financial. But he isn't as I noted in #5 of Part III. Also, your flip side analogy to dismissing the Bible is not accurate in my case. I place the greater importance on the spiritual side to begin with. The spiritual and economic are not on the same level in my book. (However, I do believe the Bible does address finances completely.) RDPD is spiritual garbage.

Yes, Kiyosaki is careful not to slit his real dad's throat in RDPD, but I'd hardly call the main theme a glowing endorsement of his father or his life. It's clear whom he really respected and liked the most. It is clear throughout the book. But, since RD is fiction, it's also unlikely that Kiyosaki's disdain is/was really that great for his dad.

He wrote the "loving tribute" to his dad in his first book because he hadn't invented RD yet. After creating the RD myth later, he had to maintain some form of affection/respect for his real dad so that he didn't look totally contradictory of his earlier writing. Thus, while he is clearly dissing his real dad in RDPD, he's not making him out to be a complete idiot. Besides, Kiyosaki is a savvy marketer. He knows that lots of folks would turn away from a book that was TOO harsh on his real dad. He's a good creative writer.

You're right I didn't read his first book and wouldn't recommend any Kiyosaki book to anyone. Homeschoolers don't need him to understand the failings of the public school system. Maybe you can run for president and nominate Kiyosaki for Sec'y of Education.

In my opinion, all of his books are intended to make a fast buck. That's what he's been after most of his life. He has his reward. Let him enjoy it.


Edited by stevebraun on Nov. 20, 2006 at 5:38 PM
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Nov. 28, 2006 - Kiyosaki Kontinued!

Posted by Glen Fullmer

Dear Steve,

Come on, Steve, how specifically do you know that SmartMoney looked into the RE transactions of the Kiyosaki's? It was obvious to me that SmartMoney did not look into the county records or they would have come to the conclusion that their assertion was non-provable. It is disingenuous to say that their lack of discovery proved that the transaction didn't exist. You can't prove a negative.

Have you or they looked at all of the Kiyosaki's transactions in that time-frame? If not, neither you have done your "homework". Kiyosaki has no responsibility to fill in the blanks for a rag that is trying to malign his integrity. I think they, like you, relied on secondary sources, else why would their accusations be almost word-for-word as Mr. Reed's?

You write:

"Clarity of contradicion about Rich Dad. Go back to Part II and read under item 3 that he claimed Rich Dad had died, then later said he was actually alive but a reclusive invalid, then claimed he was a "composite" of seven mentors. To another reporter he puts a man named "Mike" on the phone who says he's Rich Dad's son."

I did. You are quoting secondary sources, as by your own admission you have not read any of Kiyosaki's other writings. Please be more specific about your quotes and where they can be found in Kiyosaki's writings. From all of Kiyosaki's writings I can find about Rich Dad, I see evasion, yes, but no lies.

My sources about Rich Dad's (Mike's Father) existence are definitely more primary than any others to which you can point.

Kiyosaki doesn't claim to be teaching Biblical Truth. However, can you disagree that that lack of money causes evil in some cases? If not, why would good Christians be trying to eradicate poverty?

You say that Kiyosaki's "spiritual side" is lacking, but you have very little evidence to support that accusation. You are unwilling to talk about the financial truths in RDPD. I sense that you think money and all the people who have it are evil. You might want to consider what the one of the richest men in the world, Warren Buffett, has given $30 billion to the Gates Foundation. Mrs. Kroc of McDonald's fame, gave more than $3 billion to the Salvation Army. Kiyosaki encourages the same action and Rockefeller's sons were taught to do the same with their wealth. For those that are good, wealth is a blessing from God and most know it. Kiyosaki believes and teaches that.

Homeschoolers need to read his first book because they can begin to understand the reason that public schools are failing and prevent that in some of their teachings at home. A couple of his teachings:

1. Kid's need to be taught that it is alright to make mistakes and to learn from them.

2. Cooperation (public schools call it cheating) is important in learning as well as in business.

3. Every child has a genius that needs to be nurtured.

4. Sitting in a classroom for all day is not the way to learn.

5. The lecture method is one of the worst ways to learn.

6. The US public schools were modeled after the Prussian schools. They were implemented to provide business owners and government with obedient employees and not necessarily taught any skills beyond facilitating that goal.

7. Schools need to teach the principles of money.

8. There is not one "right" answer for every question.

And many others that I won't enumerate here. They can read it in his book.

You write:

"In my opinion, all of his books are intended to make a fast buck."

Obviously, you don't know his story, nor have read his books as he neither advocates, nor has tried to make a "fast buck". Not only didn't he need to when he wrote "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", hasn't done so with his books (as they have taken a long time to become successful), and he teaches to save, invest in assets and give back. That is a slow process. He was 47 when he got out of the "rat race" so it couldn't have been that "fast"! One thing that RK teaches is leverage. He has helped me and a number of others to understand how to get out of the "rat race" through his books and games. How many traditional financial planners have done that for their clients? Leverage has its value both in good that it can do and in its financial rewards. However, it does take time.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." Do you want to be a thistle and thorn gatherer or a fruitful tree? I see Kiyosaki's teaching as one fruitful tree. I have tasted its fruit and it is good!

Regards,

Glen

http://www.alreadytoharvest.com/ - My Mom's novel about my great-great grandfather.
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Nov. 30, 2006 - The Last on Krazy Kiyosaki

Posted by
Glen:

Now we're getting somewhere. You think SmartMoney is a rag. That's your opinion. Mine is different. I have no reason to believe that SmartMoney did not research the particular example (from RDPD) that they cited in the article. You may surmise, but cannot prove, that they didn't. Furthermore, based on the information you have provided, if the county records are that convoluted and difficult to navigate even for an experience person -- a fact that I can't imagine Kiyosaki would not know -- then it does not seem unreasonable for SmartMoney to have asked him to point them in the right direction. Why do you assume SmartMoney is part of some conspiracy? Could it be that they researched, couldn't find the right information, and then asked Kiyosaki to help them by pointing them to the correct information?

You just don't like SmartMoney's conclusions about Kiyosaki and how they've tarnished your hero. So they're the bad guys and so am I. I'm proud to be in such company.

Regarding Kiyosaki's lies about Rich Dad's existence. Yes, I am quoting from a secondary source (not RDPD itself). The review is about RDPD, not Kiyosaki's other works. Get that through your head once and for all. It just so happens that RDPD is also the subject of the articles in SmartMoney and Money. Both articles covered information about the author's background that could not be found in RDPD. That information is relevant to RDPD.

SmartMoney quotes Kiyosaki making up different versions about Rich Dad's existence. You are accusing them of making up those quotes, attributing them to Kiyosaki, and then outright lying to the public to smear his reputation and economically damage him. Yeah right. That's what reputable financial magazines do all the time. They just make things up in an attempt to destroy peoples' reputations and HOPE and PRAY that no one catches on to their clever ways and sues them for every penny their worth. Yup. Been doing this for decades without getting caught. Gee, aren't you brilliant to have figured this out all by yourself. But don't talk about it too much. We wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble by letting this TOP SECRET fact get out.

But seriously, you have no proof. Presuming (for the moment suspend your bias) that the reporter did her job well, she would have notes from and possibly even recordings of her conversations with Kiyosaki. These would substantiate her article and you would be laughed right out of any court of law trying to prove the opposite. You are operating out of willful blindness and against all sound reason due to your devotion to Kiyosaki.

No, I do not agree that the lack of money "causes" evil anymore than owning guns causes people to shoot others. Evil comes from the heart. Christians try to eradicate poverty and help the downtrodden out of love and obedience to Christ, and out of love and concern for their fellow humans -- not to prevent the poor from commiting evil acts.

Kiyosaki does claim to teach biblical truth. "Every one of my books comes from a biblical principle" as noted in Part I. I'm simply pointing out that he doesn't teach biblical truth. In fact, he teaches much that is contrary to Scripture, beginning with the issue about the lack of money causing evil.

Glen, you are making wild assertions again about me which are not even logical. Explain to me how it is that I work as a financial planner, serving some clients worth millions and helping them make even more, and yet also hold to a view that "money and all the people who have it are evil?" That's illogical. You are saying that I am helping people accomplish what I personally believe to be evil. Believe me, I'm in the wrong business to hold this strange view you somehow "sense" from me.

All but one of Kiyosaki's books have come along in the last 10 years. When RDPD became a huge success, then he was quick to follow up with over 20 different books under the Rich Dad theme. That's a real SLOW process isn't it? Not out to make a fast buck is he? There's nothing wrong with it. That's a very common strategy in publishing. Take a concept and come up with various extensions on the original theme in order to milk every dime out of the "brand." How many variations of "Chicken Soup for..." or "Prayer of Jabez for..." have you seen? Same concept with Rich Dad. It will eventually fade just like the others. As I said in my review, I congratulate Kiyosaki for his success at turning a myth into his pot of gold. He has his reward.

Take away all the other blabbering about debt, doodads, etc., by "rat race" you disciples of Kiyosaki eventually get down to really meaning "work." Anyone who gets up in the morning and goes to work is a foolish idiot in your worldview. This, of course, cannot be supported in the Bible and is actually contrary to Scripture, but why let that stop you. Just twist what's there to suit your vision.

So Jesus came to emancipate us from work by making us rich. Of course, this message was lost for thousands of years (due to the evil forces of darkness who actually hate money) until Kiyosaki came along and had a vision. In that vision Jesus told Kiyosaki that He would reestablish His true gospel of wealth and redemption through him. Yes, Kiyosaki would head a new "church" based on this long lost message -- not the old message of a suffering Savior shedding His blood for our sins -- but instead doling out money to eliminate evil. Now we can all thank Prophet Bob for being faithful to share this message with all of us ignorant ones. PTL! We have seen the light AND the money!

Plenty of financial planners have helped their clients out of the rat race. Plently of other ones have given out bad advice that have set their clients back. Still others have actually stolen money from their clients. That doesn't prove anything about financial planners.

So some readers of Kiyosaki have been helped. Has it ever ocurred to you that many others tried and got nowhere? Or have actually been harmed? Varied experiences prove nothing.

Fruit goes beyond this world, Glen. All you can see are the dollars. That is sad. Unfortunately, the amount made OR given away is not what qualifies a person to have his or her name written in the Lamb's Book of Life. I believe Kiyosaki takes people AWAY from that ultimate goal through the spirit of greed he spreads through the twisting of biblical principles. As I said before, he is a wolf in sheep's clothing. His teaching does not belong in the church or in a serious Christian's life.

That's my opinion. If you don't like it, stop reading what I write. It's a free country. You have not disuaded me from my view. My policy is to welcome open dialog on this blog and I do not exclude the opinions of others -- even if I disagree with them. But this has gone on too long and beyond the point of value. You may want to spend your life talking about Kiyosaki, but I don't. Feel free to come here to read, but let's put this to rest. Stick to your forum and I'll stick to my blog.

It's been a pleasure to "debate" and I wish you well.


Edited by stevebraun on Dec. 1, 2006 at 11:50 AM
Permanent Link

Mar. 15, 2008 - u have nothing better to do

Posted by Anonymous
and who u r to judge on someone else' production.. read it at ur own risk and take it or leave it. if u think his words don't make sense then you should just leave it. u r just wasting your time trying to investigate and prove him wrong. and tat reflects u r shallow minded. a person who can think effectively knows whether which of his statements are tobe taken as guide. for an example, kiyosaki encourages ppl to invest but didn't mention it is 100% safe because everyone's aware of it!!!! he didn't ask anyone to invest without thinking and just invest in everything they see. the problem is not with the book, it is the way u interpret it. if a person fail in his business and blame on his advice, think the problem has got to be with the person not the book
Permanent Link

Mar. 29, 2008 - Dave Ramsey

Posted by Craig A. White
Is Dave Ramsey's work one of the "better resources" to which you refer in your review of Kiyosaki's work?
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Steve Braun

Steve Braun has been a Christian for 22 years, happily married to his wife Karen (a.k.a. Spunky) for 20 years, and is the proud father of their 6 children who are homeschooled. He is also the founder and president of Liberty Financial Planning. Steve's blog is devoted to writing about the financial services industry, providing commentary on current news items, discussing personal finance concepts or issues, and coaching parents on how to teach their children sound financial stewardship principles.

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