Many of you have probably seen those gospel tracts with a picture of a large chasm. God is on one side, and man is on the other. The open space between them represents sin. There's no way that man can possibly cross over to the other side to commune with God. The situation seems hopeless! That is, until Jesus comes into the picture. The cross bridges the space between God and man. Jesus makes it possible for man to be with God.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ; ~ 1 Timothy 2:5
Many people will use this verse to say that Catholics are wrong in praying to the saints. Why go to St. Francis or St. Cecilia rather than going straight to God? Jesus is the only mediator!!
Well, there is a big difference between the kind of mediator talked about in 1 Tim 2:5 and the role of the saints in the Church. None of the saints can fill the chasm between God and men. They would all fall short just as we would!! Jesus is the only one who can bridge the gap. He is the only mediator.
The saints don't act as mediators, but as intercessors. They are our brothers and sisters in Christ. If I asked you to pray for me, would you quote 1 Tim 2:5 and say that you couldn't because you'd be going between me and God? Would you tell me to go straight to God rather than asking you? Of course not. You would make intercession for me, just as the saints do when I ask them to pray for me.
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. ~ 2 Corinthians 5:17-19
Pax Christi,
~the Catholic apologist
Comments
Posted by nancysnook Nancy
Posted by Songwriter I think where I was coming from was praying to the saints so that they will use their "power" and help you wasn't right...that would mean they were taking the place of God and you were putting your trust in them to help you instead of God.
Now, I don't think I necessarily have a problem with asking to saints to pray for you, like you would ask a friend, except for the fact that they are dead. So it's not exactly the same thing. No, I'm not saying they're non-existant, because their souls are in heaven with Jesus, but I'm not inclined at the moment to believe that the saints can hear our prayers.
I don't know how we could ever know that though. So, I guess what I'm saying is, I somewhat agree with you (which is a first I think! LOL) but i'm not completely on your side yet. Of this certain subject at least. :)
Danya <><
Posted by rebecca Is there an example in Scripture of anyone praying to a dead person asking him/her to be an intercessor? Paul counseled us frequently to pray for one another. However, do you know of an incident where he or Christ or anyone else prayed to a dead person in order that that person might make intercession for them? Or a Scripture that indicates that the saved in Heaven are praying for others?
Posted by 
Posted by thecatholicapologist My answer to your first question would be no, not directly. There aren’t any instances in the Bible of people asking saints in heaven to pray for them that I know of. There are examples of people invoking the angels and “host of heaven” to glorify God, but I don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for.
In regards to your second question, about whether or not there are any instances of the saved in heaven praying for others, there is one Scripture passage that come to mind:
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. ~ Revelation 5:8
The beasts and elders in heaven were interceding for the saints.
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. ~ Hebrews 12:1
The saints are in heaven, glorifying God. But, they are also still aware that we, the saints on earth, are still struggling to run the race. Why wouldn’t they be praying for us if they are “witnesses” of what we are doing? And if they can witness us, why wouldn’t they be able hear us?
There’s really nowhere in the Bible that clearly says that those in heaven can hear our prayers, but neither is there a place that it clearly says that they cannot. That’s why I rely on the teaching that Christ has given the Church. I look to history and see that the early Church fathers believed in the intercession of the saints, and that Christians have held to that teaching for hundreds and hundreds of years:
"In this way is he [the true Christian] always pure for prayer. He also prays in the society of angels, as being already of angelic rank, and he is never out of their holy keeping; and though he pray alone, he has the choir of the saints standing with him [in prayer]" ~ Clement of Alexandria (Miscellanies 7:12 [A.D. 208])
"But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels...as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep" ~ Origen (Prayer 11 [A.D. 233])
"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition..." ~ Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures 23:9 [A.D. 350])
"You victorious martyrs who endured torments gladly for the sake of the God and Savior, you who have boldness of speech toward the Lord himself, you saints, intercede for us who are timid and sinful men, full of sloth, that the grace of Christ may come upon us, and enlighten the hearts of all of us so that we may love him" ~ Ephraim the Syrian (Commentary on Mark [A.D. 370])
Danya, I post these more for your interest than your mother’s. You said that you weren’t inclined to believe that the saints can hear your prayers. Well, know that these early Christians didn’t have the same inclination. They believed it, as did nearly all Christians for the first thousand years of the Church.
I appreciate both of you taking the time to read and comment. :-) You always ask very good questions that force me to dig deeper into what I’m trying to communicate and live out in my own life.
Thanks and Pax Christi,
Sylvia
Posted by rebecca There are different ways that Bible scholars have interpreted both of the Scriptures that you mentioned. Some have said that the "prayers of the saints" in the Revelation passage are the prayers that represent all that the redeemed have ever prayed concerning the ultimate and final redemption. I am not a scholar of the book of Revelation, however, and I would have to really study that passage in its entire context in order to really get a handle on it.
The "great cloud of witnesses" has been interpreted by some to be just what you mentioned. Others believe that Paul is challenging us to run the race inspired by the godly examples that those saints have set in their lives. Bible teacher John MacArthur believes, "The great crowd is not comprised of spectators but rather is comprised of ones whose past life of faith encourages others to live that way." I tend to lean toward MacArthur's view of that Scripture, but I have not studied the original Greek text nor read enough commentaries to know with a firmness what Paul was saying.
I appreciate you, Sylvia, and your presence here on HSB. You are an encouragement to many people, and you have been a good friend to Danya! You show great skill in your writing and communicating, and your love for your Catholic faith is evident! In what I have read of your blog, I have learned quite a bit about Catholicism!
May God bless you as you pursue Him and continue to study His Word!
Posted by Anonymous 